It seems to me that there are a few among us that seem to have nothing but time on their hands to put down and denigrate others. For those that cannot participate in the BTM forum in a manner that is at least trying to be courteous to the beliefs and thoughts of others, I propose that our new reply ought to only be "I love you!"
Julie Jenkins Archer first responded to Awesomo5000 in this manner, after a drawn-out display of mind-numbing childishness, so I give her full credit for inspiring this thought.
Instead of wasting our precious time and energy responding to the rudeness of others, and engendering harder feelings as conversations decline into abysmal stupidity and classless retorts, I think we ought to merely demonstrate our willingness to accept the humanity of everyone, even though they might have a problem playing nicely with others. As a culture-building exercise for this website, could we not instead just respond with a universal "I love you?"
Isn't that what we are truly telling our neighbors when we work to defend their freedom? Isn't that why we all come to this website in the first place--because we love our freedom and our country? I think that the basis of freedom is love for others, so maybe that can be the basis of how we respond to those who might use this website as a tool to demonstrate their anger with the world. I know this might be a hard sell for many out there, but I hope that we can all give it a try. I think it might help make BTM a much more pleasant place in which to interact and trade productive thoughts with each other.
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Greenpepper, I mean awesomo5000, I LOVE YOU! Just kidding, I couldn't give a rats.... But hey, I'll have to admit your kind of growing on me (like a fungus maybe).
As for the rudeness, I don't share your views. You can disagree, and even have a heated debate without reducing yourself to the school yard bully image. I usually refrain from initiating that kind of behavior, but will be happy to mirror back whatever is thrown my way. So if your ever feeling froggy, You can be my arch-nemesis and I can be yours! ;)
I have no problem with asking that there be a polite manner of posting. But, guilt-tripping others into compliance on being polite isn't my way.
I'd prefer the term "respect." Polite makes me think of "political correctness."
"Ignoring ideas to go on personal attacks will surely lead to a denigration of this site." Very true. That is why I just posted a beautiful approach to a peaceful argument as practiced by Ben Franklin. Hopefully it can be adopted as a desired BTM discussion standard.
also, personal attacks should be avoided
for awesomo to say he is here to ridicule or put down anyone here shouldn't be tolerated. The forum will be productive if ideas are exchanged and debated. Ignoring ideas to go on personal attacks will surely lead to a denigration of this site.
Witness almost every thread that awesomo has latched onto. You will notice a devolution away from content (awesomo has offerred none) and towards personal attacks, grammatical deconstruction, and unproductive bickering ad infinitum.
Awesomo grants himself the power of judging what is silly and foolish. That's a power reserved for monarchs and children. Exchanging ideas, debate, and etc. is not about identifying what is foolish and silly. This notion lacks respect and suggests that awesomo is somehow exempt from silly and foolish things as indeed he has risen to be the arbiter and judge of the silly and foolish.
Still no original content -- but endless disparaging comments.
you're just a warm furry ball of morality aren't ya?
> I think a little restraint could go a long way also, personal attacks should be avoided [...] Ignoring ideas to go on personal attacks will surely lead to a denigration of this site.
what do you call this one here http://breakthematrix.com/node/9085#comment-5968
i guess personal attacks are ok in some cases, ain't they?
> for awesomo to say he is here to ridicule or put down anyone here shouldn't be tolerated.
at least i'm not a hypocrite.
why do you cry so much?
attacks. You are a zero sum game. That is not a personal attack. That is a scientific observation.
wait, what I meant to say is Awesomo we love you
we still love you,
but I actually just clicked on the link that you offerred and its me bashing Scott McClellan
Can we perhaps distinguish between public figures not involved in the conversation
and actual people in the forum?
personal attacks are in bad taste on people here but they're perfectly acceptable when it comes to politicians? can you post a list of all the groups acceptable to slander for those that are thinking of following your moral code? it's best to establish these codes at the beginning rather than along the way, i think.
down and memorize it before you post anything new
It is ok to criticize public officials such as politicians for their public behavior,
suggesting that they be punished for their acts is ok
It is not ok to make personal attacks against those that love you in the forums here
for the good humor and love adaadamR
ja
There ya go! That's the spirit!
It is a lot to ask, but once tried it can be a source of inner satisfaction instead of oppression. These days self restraint is viewed as oppression instead of liberation. I like to look at is as liberation from my dark side. I try not to let that animal instinct to attack get the best of me.
“There is more benefit from speaking out imperfectly than remaining perfectly quiet.”
~ Jahfre Fire Eater http://alphavilledecoder.org/
Finally, a pointed, real-world description of what is causing our little troubles!
I agree with you 100%, though I find I am sometimes lacking in this marvelous virtue. Self restraint seems to be the solution to so many of societies ills. I need to learn to exercise more of it. Thank you for your insight.
because I was deemed the shinning example.
I deleted the other 10 or so copies of this post. Please don't spam Ether! BTM simply cannot afford to tolerate this behavior (just imagine if everyone did it). Thank you for understanding.
Sorry 'bout that. Thanks for leaving this one up, though.
isn't it?
should really give a little thought to what you just did and what you are preaching my friend. I wreaks of hypocrisy.
I disagree with your assessment, as I honestly do think that trying to create a culture on BTM that encourages real discussion and respect is important.
Awesomo5000 specifically stated that they were trying to be obnoxious, rude and spiteful. I was not trying to retaliate for that intentionally childish behavior, but was merely trying to spread an idea about how to counter it in a peaceful, non-force kind of way.
If this idea seems useless to you, then what would you suggest to help keep BTM focused on discussion that is pertinent and useful, rather than waste time, and engender division and infighting, through intentionally childish posts?
Used to go by the name of Squarlis, and was known then as an instigator as well.
short term memory.
So.. you don't think posting this forum 4 times and singling out one person to try and set some kind of moral example according to the way you would like to see things, is not a bit hypocritical?
Not only that, you lied about and misrepresented the little exchange you and Julie had with this person.
Lets have a look...
You say
***Awesomo5000 specifically stated that they were trying to be obnoxious, rude and spiteful
What he actually said was... get ready...
***my purpose is to ridicule and put down people who make silly statements and comments. that is why i'm here. contention is being spread as a side effect, not the original purpose.
Well excuse me.. maybe your dyslexia was acting up. I have no problem with calling out people who spread crap and there is a bit more for my taste sometimes here at BTM and when I read it I tell the poster what I think... I don't whine about it.. So, stop being so self righteous and if someone has an issue with something you posted put your brain and keyboard to work and quit your complaining.
:)
I'll admit to being overzealous in my attempt to find ways to counter abject, intentional, repetitive rudeness. That is not "whining," as you have stated, but trying to work out a solution to a problem. I was, as you said, "[putting my] brain and keyboard to work."
As for being self-righteous, is it wrong to desire that people treat each other in a way in which they would want to be treated? That is not self-righteousness, that is a call for adhering to the social norms of common courtesy and decency. The expectation for courtesy and decency has been expressed by many in this forum and I was merely seeking for a way for that expectation to have some efficacy. That is not being self-righteous, as you have supposed, but is working toward a solution to a common problem.
I interpret "my purpose is to ridicule and put down people who make silly statements and comments. that is why i'm here. contention is being spread as a side effect, not the original purpose" as being purposely obnoxious, rude and spiteful. That is not a misrepresentation, but an opinion of events that I was a witness and party to. You might have a different interpretation, and you are entitled to that opinion. My wording was not a quotation, but a description. I am entitled to describe what I have observed in a way that I feel fits the scene. You can disagree with my description until you are blue in the face.
Ridiculing others is a tactic that I think most people find highly objectionable, which would seem to place such an action roundly in the descriptive categories of "obnoxious, rude and spiteful"--especially in regard to Awesomo5000's response when called out on said tactic. It does not seem that Awesomo5000's intention was to be congenial, kind and forgiving, at any rate.
Also, it seems reasonable to state that Awesomo5000's comment that "contention is being spread as a side effect, not the original purpose" is more than just a little bit disingenuous. Ridiculing others will always lead to contention. If Awesomo5000 cannot perceive that truth, then we have a larger problem than I previously thought.
> I interpret "my purpose is to ridicule and put down people who make silly statements and comments. that is why i'm here. contention is being spread as a side effect, not the original purpose" as being purposely obnoxious, rude and spiteful.
not really. let me run that by you again:
> Awesomo5000 specifically stated that they were trying to be obnoxious, rude and spiteful.
that's not an 'interpretation' where i come from. where i come from that's called a lie. and what you're doing here in this comment is lying again to avoid admitting to lying in the first place. and you school everybody here on morality and conduct?
I think the problem with BTM is far and wide> when it comes to critical thinking errors! Good job Awesome5000 for pointing out obvious hypocrisy! I would also like to say, When a site is more concerned with cussing then with (group think and gang mentality) there is a fundamental problem!
Why is it when you call someone out on something you notice that their first inclination is to say, "clean up your own side of the street" or "Live by example" They start evading the issue by pointing out anything and everything they can to divert the attention away from themselves? These people have no problem holding some far off politician accountable or get angry because one of the politicians buddies looked the other way when he does something unethical....but they refuse to hold their peers to the same standard! How can we ever change a system when we keep trying to bail the water at the top instead of fixing the leaks at the bottom....WAKE UP PEOPLE! WE ARE THE PROBLEM! The way we have been taught to behave as a social group is wrong! I suggest that anything you think is right, question it and ask yourself, why has this behavior been acceptable for so long, and even more important>>>Why has it been promoted to be SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE! Who in the group really gains by the socially acceptable behavior, WHO does it protect by being that way and who will it hurt if it is no longer allowed? I am a firm believer that if it is a socially accepted behavior there is something fundamentally wrong with it! Good luck!
I think the problem we are having is over the word "specifically." If you see my use of that word as being too specific for your taste, then fine, I'll recant the use of that word. I hope that pleases you. As for the rest, I stand by it. The spirit of your discourse was an admission that you wanted to continue to act in ways that would be obnoxious, rude and spiteful to others, in my book. That is how I understood your statement then, and that is how I understand it today. That is not a lie, that is the truth.
I'm done picking this over with you.
> I think the problem we are having is over the word "specifically."
that's not the problem.
the problem is this: you wrote that i "specifically stated" something that i did not state.
i pointed it out to you and you refuse to admit what you did even though it's written here on the same page for everyone to see.
what's next? we debate what the word "is" means?
like a child with chocolate all over his face you insist that you didn't touch the cake.
you're a very small man in spirit and heart.
I love you Awesomo5000!
Regardless of our differing points of view, I have to admit that you are a pretty smart cookie. As much as I regret to say it, I appreciate your ability to navigate through an argument--when you are not name-calling and such. While I dislike your attitude sometimes, I appreciate the intellectual exercise you give all of us. Thanks for your contribution.
now if only you could get yourself up to acknowledge that you lied about me here that would be great.
When I see proof (through my own observation, and on my own terms--not through your coercion) that your behavior is no longer intentionally rude, obnoxious and spiteful, I'll rescind my supposedly deceitful framing of your own admission of your SOP. Until then, no dice.
don't play dumb.
i'm not asking you to change your opinion about me.
i couldn't care less about what you think of me.
learn not to lie in the future so you won't find yourself in this position again.
your inability to accept penalty for wrongdoing is a major character flaw.