Whenever I get into a discussion about returning America back to the Constitutional Republic that it mostly was before the world wars, people scoff at me for wanting to bring back American isolationism. They make the claim that a pre-World War I America could never survive in today's global economy. To that challenge, I would refer everyone to the words of Ezra Taft Benson, Secretary of Agriculture under Eisenhower, and Prophet of the L.D.S. Church in the 1980s:
"Already, I can hear the chorus chanting 'Isolationism, isolationism, he's turning back the clock to isolationism.' How many use that word without having the slightest idea of what it really means! The so-called isolationism of the United States in past decades is a pure myth. What is isolationism? Long before the current trend of revoking our Declaration of Independence under the guise of international cooperation, American influence and trade was felt in every region of the globe. Individuals and private groups spread knowledge, business, prosperity, religion, good will and, above all, respect throughout every foreign continent. It was not necessary then for America to give up her independence to have contact and influence with other countries. It is not necessary now.
"Yet, many Americans have been led to believe that our country is so strong that it can defend, feed and subsidize half the world, while at the same time believing that we are weak and "interdependent" that we cannot survive without pooling our resources and sovereignty with those we subsidize. If wanting no part of this kind of 'logic' is isolationism, then it's time we brought it back into vogue." (An Enemy Hath Done This [1969] p. 155)
Can we really return American political institutions back to pre-WWI norms and remain competitive in a global society and economy? Sure we can! And I think Mr. Benson's reasoning on the strength of America versus the global economy is perfectly sound. Given the fact that we are subsidizing and defending nearly the entire world, are we then too weak to remain aloof from the political stupidity that abounds on our planet, while also maintaining our economic competitiveness?
Subscribe to this thread- Flag as offensive
- Login or register to post comments
- 352 reads
I love you.
I think any time we see Awesomo5000 post something less than courteous anywhere, we ought to just respond with Julie's simple message, "Awesomo5000, I love you." Julie, you crack me up!
Awesomo5000, I love you.
this doesn't surprise me one bit.
*Sigh* I hope that your tactics of negativity and slander you strongly defend bring you the conformity to your perception you so desire. Then the world will be a better place.
if/when myself, and a few others that have a set, leave, you'll have a nice friendly forum where everyone will pat each other on the back for everything they bring up.
I think you give yourself far too much credit, which seems a fitting observation given your prior self-absorbed commentary.
I see you heckling everyone else around here, yet you don't post any newsworthy or thoughtworthy articles. I don't think anyone around here claims to be an authority on any particular issue just as most folks here aren't afraid of differing views. I do think, however, that most folks around here do not wish this site to become another smack-down haven. So, Awesomo, pretty please with sugar on top--stop disrespecting and start contributing.
> stop disrespecting and start contributing.
no!
"my purpose is to ridicule and put down people who make silly statements and comments." <--silly to who? you? What is silly to one person may be a strong belief to another. And even if you disagree you can still gain great understanding for others beliefs. Many of the respected members on this site didn't achieve respect because they agreed with everyone or ridiculed others for their beliefs. They just know how approach each post with an open mind and they know how to respectfully disagree or find enlightenment in others words that they may have not considered in the past.
We all come from different upbringing and backgrounds. Don't automatically assume your perception and experiences is better than everyone elses because what if your wrong in the end?(I'm not suggesting you are, just asking that you look for the truth in others)
Leave the ridicule and "hilarity at the expense of others" to the mass media and give BTM your valued knowledge and experience.
The very concept of a 'respected member' supports ad hominem
thinking, which is just a way of avoiding giving ideas full consideration.
As far as isolationism goes, my position is non-doctrinal but practical.
I'm far from committed to that position as I don't think I've seen all
the best arguments. Our country, including the government, seems
to have been sold to foreign interests. The repudiation of these
obligations could trigger an anticipated catastrophe. It needs to be
approached with the kind of stealth that was used to deliberately
create this mess: legalistic obfuscation.
I think some protectionism is advisable at present, to help rebuild
America's manufacturing sector, for a more self sufficient economy.
Without metal based currencies balance of payment deficits can be
swept under the carpet for too long, allowing whole sectors of the
economy to be exported. True free trade is only possible with real
money; otherwise, it's just another tool of the globalist juggernaut.
I have watched other sites lose their momentum as a result of overzealous people. We should really attempt to maintaining dialog--not ad hominem attacks.
I've seen it too. There always seems to be a small segment of people bent on pushing the nail of dull, pointless, minute, self-absorbed debate into the flesh of an otherwise interesting site. I'd really like to talk about America as the world's lone super-power and how we could do pretty well without internationalizing, or harmonizing, our government and institutions with the rest of the socialist infested planet.
all this commotion was created (by me) because of one simple thing you did in your post. instead of simply putting forth an idea to discuss, you had to be sneaky about slipping in your religious bit in there. tell me why you had to make sure that the reader knew that the man you quoted was a member of the religion you follow?
given that, ask yourself if any of this 'dull, pointless, minute and self-absorbed' debate would occur at all, had you left that bit of information out? how is the man's religion significant to the context of the quote you chose?
so here you were pushing your religious agenda in a sneaky way and then you bitch about me discussing it. i'm so mean and i should stop and you're all crying and wishing i'd go someplace else. don't write anything you don't want discussed. i recognize that i'm annoying, offensive and mean in my comments, i make no apologies for that. but do you recognize the part you had in all this? can you admit to yourself that what you did here actually started this 'dull, pointless, minute and self-absorbed' debate? imagine that same post of yours without mentioning your religious organization. how refreshing that would be.
I love you!
> What is silly to one person may be a strong belief to another
i don't doubt it. that's what makes it so funny. if you treat fairy tales as facts you're being ridiculous, it doesn't matter how strongly you believe in them. tell me what your reaction would be if i said that i believe that the world will end next month and i produce circumstantial and historical bits that i somehow think all tie in to support my belief? you would not find it ridiculous? would you take the time to calmly explain my delusions away? if i told you this face to face, as a stranger on the street, you would slowly back away and look for a cop, just in case.
> Many of the respected members on this site didn't achieve respect because they agreed with everyone or ridiculed others for their beliefs.
what you're implying here i think is that i'm fishing for respect, and i should follow examples on how to gain it. for the record, i'm not looking for anyone to respect me here or anywhere else. i don't care if anyone here or anywhere else is offended by me, ever. this concern is not factored into anything i do.
> We all come from different upbringing and backgrounds.
true. and most of us have all five senses and a brain. if you're pushing some idea without having considered the information from all your inputs and your processing unit then you're lying, whether intentionally or not, a lie is a lie. misinformation should never be treated with the same critical analysis as facts. it should be beaten down and ridiculed before some gullible joe comes by, sees no argument against it and joins the crazy crowd. crazy spreads like wildfire. if someone has something to state that might require one to accept something new, then they better have some facts. some dude with an epiphany claiming some great truth on a two minute youtube video is not enough. it's a start, but not quiet enough. most of the time, you will notice if you pay attention, facts to back up a claim are lacking because there are none. if you have no hard facts then what you're selling is bullcrap.
Okay, instead of going on and on attacking part of my original post that you don't believe in, like Prophets, God, religion and such, then what do you have to say about the real intent of the post: the myth of pre-WWI U.S. isolationism? I'm sure you have something to say about that?
. . . still waiting. . .
AWESOME 5000-I have continually watched your posts of negativity and intolerance in addition to your inability to engage in an intelligent debate. Your ad hominem responses are boring and makes one wonder what is your purpose for being on this site... to spread contention? Did you not read the message of Break the Matrix? Hope, optimism, truth? Go find your joy and then come back to this site.
i'm a happy and joyous guy already.
no need for me to go find joy anywhere, i'm already full of it :)
my posts are not filled with negativity and intolerance; they are filled with bits of hilarity at the expense of others. nothing wrong with that. my purpose is to ridicule and put down people who make silly statements and comments. that is why i'm here. contention is being spread as a side effect, not the original purpose.
hope, optimism, truth. what is true about ceiling cat coming down in 1820 to talk to a guy in minnesota? is there any hope, optimism or truth in this? how should one comment on a statement like that?
I think you help matters, at the sacrifice of looking like an idiot to the
slower of thought. It's a noble gesture.
Your work serves to help those trying to make serious points to refine
their arguments,and prepares us all for the adversities we'll face making
points in extemporaneous discussions.
You've been on my case often enough, and I'd say you've been very
helpful. I would have asked to be your friend earlier, but I wanted
to do my part in maintaining the theatrical stench of contention between
us.
I love this ceiling cat entity you're channeling lately. Clinging to the
belief in the power of belief as I do, I think you've really got something
there, certainly as valid as any of the less disorganized religions.
I, Ceiling Cat iz wel nown entity, srsly: http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
Absolutely, convincingly and accurately destroys any argument that the "founders" foreign policy was anything close to isolationist. Trade and friendship with ALL nations is not isolationism.
Quite to the contrary; its the neo-cons and globalists, who by bullets and blood spread our "freedoms" that isolate us from the world. We are more isolated now, Americans are more hated now, by the rest of the world (but not the bankers and WTO/IMF loons) than at any other time in recent memory. I dont know if there is anyone alive today who has seen such enmity and disgust with what America is seen to be.
Of course, if you ask some educated Europeans (and I have, repeatedly) whether they hate Americans the reply is always no. "We do not hate the people of America. We hate the leaders of America. We hate the Government of America." And the follow up question: "But isn't it the American people who elect the leaders that you despise?" "Aren't the people of America somewhat to blame?" Answer: No, few people believe the elections in America are legitimate or represent what the American people really want.
I think we have found some common ground with our friends across the pond and wherever else they may be from. For I, too, am not that trustworthy of our electoral process and I am infuriated at our what our government has done and continues to do in our good name. However, I am not so kind to my fellow Americans. They share the blame. And for a very large number of them, they deserve blame. Its like the sayings of wisdom from Animal House: "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life..."
"Inexplicable humans...how can you combine so much baseness and so much greatness, so many virtues and so many crimes?" Francois Marie Arouet de Voltaire, 'The World As it Is" circa 1748.
"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life..."
I see the main problem as fear, and the denial it motivates. The
government has behaved so badly that reality based discussions
of politics have become off limits in polite society. "Hillary or
Obama" is fine of course. "New World Order", and you get
that condescending non-conspiracy theorist look. Hobnobbing
with the hoity toity is definitely not my bag, though I definitely will
whip out a plummy British accent when confronted by abject
snobbery. I think it's some kind of secret recognition code.
Great headway can be made by fast talkers who can get on
conservative AM talk radio. I actually got the federal reserve thing
across on a nationally syndicated show. "You're being robbed!" is
a very compelling message. The merest hint of it is gonna get
folks sniffing around. I turned my radio back on when I was done,
and they played me right to the end. MSM headway, thanks
to pressure from the likes of BTM.
Got any thoughts about economic isolationism?
it's not isolationism that i'll be pointing out here. you just had to slip this one in, didn't you?
> Ezra Taft Benson [..] Prophet of the L.D.S. Church in the 1980s
he too, believed that ceiling cat came down from the ceiling to mr smith in 1820? you mean the secretary of agriculture under Eisenhower was delusional like you?
Those are Ezra Taft Benson's credentials. Not only was he a well connected political leader, he was also the Prophet of a major religious organization. In both positions he was privy to insights that helped him understand the plight of American freedom in our time.
Mainly, I think it might be fascinating for those visiting this post to discover that L.D.S. Prophets, like Benson, and the very doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has stated for 150 years that there would be, and that there is, a conspiracy in our government today that "seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people (Book of Mormon, Book of Ether, Chapter 8, verse 24)." This jives with Revelation chapters 13, 17 and 18 in the Bible. Benson pointed out, repeatedly, that the Book of Mormon clearly presents such a message, and the majority of Mormons rejected him and this message. He queried:
"Are you concerned about the increasing subversion in this blessed country, and other countries of the free world and the spread of wickedness by a giant conspiracy? Would you be interested in reading the Book of Mormon, which records the downfall of two great ancient American civilizations as a result of internal secret conspiracies and contains a warning to us today that when we see these conditions in our midst, the Lord commands us to awake to our awful situation? With the increasing amount of aid and trade that we are providing the enemy of freedom you might be interested to know what the Book of Mormon says will happen to a nation that upholds this conspiracy. Would you like to know of the warnings of the prophets about our increasing descent down the soul-destroying road of socialism and what they have told us to do about it?" (Pres Ezra Taft Ben - CR Oct 1972)
He made no bones about it, the Book of Mormon foretells the overthrow of America due to a "secret combination." This was only one quote of many that I could have placed here from this good man. It just might be important to anyone who is seeking truth in our age of confusion and falsehood.