The Three C's-- Controversy, Censorship and Compromise
Full plate at BreakTheMatrix this week with the three C's-- controversy, censorship and compromise. The C's were rolling with profanity, politics, and personal attacks (oops-- those are the P's) and pretty much everything in between. So it's Friday on a holiday weekend eve, and I thought a few philosophical (4th P) thoughts might be appropriate. So here are some words on the C's:
Controversy-- much of what happened this week was triggered by some religion-- based attack threads in the forums. The attacks got me thinking about what we should do on the hot button issues. So it was "2nd C" time, and I put up a "Censorship-- Should We?" piece that generated a lengthy collection of thoughtful responses from commenters. The bottom line member consensus (4th C!) was overwhelming-- BreakTheMatrix should not be in the business of censoring content on "substantive" grounds. So that's the way it will be. If things get out of hand we can look at the issue again down the road; but for now at least, BTM will not be deleting content based on the substantive material in the thread. We would appreciate good manners and reasoned discourse, but we will not plan to censor on substance.
Censorship-- Another consensus developed among the members on the use of "f" and "s" words in threads and posts. I suppose we owe a grudging vote of thanks to the now immortalized Frank for sharing his profanity laden threads and showing us (in graphic terms) the need for a "no swearing" policy at BreakTheMatrix. Is this "censorship"? I suppose the answer is a partial "yes," but I perceive that there is a big difference between a bar against profanity and a limitation upon substantive content. Bottom line-- there's a member consensus on the "no swearing" issue, and that will be the policy for BreakTheMatrix. (We'll work out some details later re things like multiple offender issues; gradations of "punishment"; site-- posted notice of the policy; etc., etc.)
Compromise-- The content I enjoyed most this week were the Florida political threads on the "compromise" issue. Is it a sellout for freedom people to do business with our political adversaries? Is a freedom politician compromised if he makes a deal, and endorses a neocon Republican? These are highly important questions, and it was both enlightening and encouraging for me to see these core issues discussed in a thoughtful way on the pages of BreakTheMatrix. The compromise debate will always be with us-- it's the very nature of the real world we live in. Borisimo and Dean Santoro obviously have issues of personal history that sharply divide them-- but the "compromise" discussion framed by their postings was useful and instructive, imho.
All in all, an intriguing week of the three C's at BTM. Enjoy the holiday; for there's every reason to be optimistic about the future.
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being resolved anytime soon.
From my point of view, I'm not that interested in the personal life of anyone who posts on this site, whether they are a columnist or not.
I've heard your point and I see your passion, but some of it is missing me, because whether or not you were falsely accused or whether or not DSantoro is endorsing neo-cons, I don't see how it involves me.
I'm interested in reading what people post here, participating in discussions, trading ideas, and building community.
For me, DSantoro is another point of view added to this site, as well as someone who may be able to shed some light on the practical workings of party politics. That's all interesting. Beyond that I don't really feel involved.
You have to understand where I'm coming from, when I heard the stories that Bill Clinton allowed tons of cocaine to pass through Arkansas while he was governor, I thought, "good for him. He grew up poor."
I guess that's the libertarian in me.
I don't live in Florida so I won't be voting there so all the stuff you bring up, while it may be true, and if it were I would sympathize, just doesn't register with me.
You make a great point. Break the Matrix has a big and lofty goal and I too think the issue of endorsement and integrity has played out. Everyone has said their peace, made their accusations, and that is why I titled the comment below as "my closing argument"
The personal attacks have always been unnecessary.
So I hear you brother.
Boris in Miami
What an uncertain world for us if we didn't have personal bias. I prefer my chocolate dark, my woman smart, and my politicians honest and uncompromising.
If anyone has bothered to look it up; This is what Santoro had to say about Linconl Diaz-Balart "The seat is currently held by Lincoln Diaz-Balart, a neoconservative Republican who consistently votes the failed Bush Agendas. It’s time for a change, time to elect people like me who will TRULY & TRUTHFULLY represent the interests of the PEOPLE, not those of the bought & paid for special interests." *1
But that didn't stop Santoro from announcing that Lincoln the neocon had his "wholehearted support and endorsement" while adding "I have come to appreciate his profound commitment to public service and the respect and integrity with which he serves his constituents" *2
In his own words he gave a "neoconservative Republican who consistently votes the failed Bush Agendas"his "wholehearted support and endorsement".
And this he did in exchange for a lower state seat in a heavily democratic neocon district where he has little, if any, chance of winning. He exchanged a US Congress run he could have easily won (if he had any local grass-roots support -which he has very little of) for nothing except the chance to hub-nub.*3
Compare that event with the events of 2006, the year Frank Gonzalez ran in the same district for US Congress against Lincoln. Frank, running an on-your-face freedom platform, and with only $15'000 and about five to ten freedom fighters, got 60'000 votes, which is 41%, in the general election. With that precedent and a meetup with members in the hundreds, one would think Santoro would have been encouraged to kick some neocon ass.
At that time Lincoln must have been passing bricks with nails, as he heard the Ron Paul troops gathering in the distance. And Lincoln was right, there was a storm brewing. For the strategic plan by Frank Gonzalez was for himself to run as a democrat as he had before, and convince Dean to run in the primary against Lincoln as a republican. A superb plan I must say. One that would have landed the neocon in a huge storm. But alas, it was not to be. Santoro at the time holding the reins of the local Ron Paul meet up (he is a member of it no longer) quickly turned against Frank and other members, and deleted them from the group.
Frank in disgust with not only the neocons, but also the meetup group, quit his not yet started race, not wanting to divide the revolution. Leaving Santoro with a golden opportunity he was unable to capitalize on.
It might seem I have an ax to grind, and the harm to my reputation, caused by him -for his accusations against me at the time were grave- are issues that of course still affect my personal bias. But, let me tell you why I think he failed to capitalize on this opportunity: The about the total disarray, and lack of effectiveness of the meetup because of its lack of leadership, or (my opinion) his haughty and arrogant behavior, or his disposition to disregard the on-the-ground activists but tremendous affinity with those people in positions to further his ambition.
Also, Let me tell you that we discussed at the local level whether this should be brought up in here BTM since we felt uneasy about him being made a "featured columninst". The result was that It was encouraged by active people in the area to bring the Endorsement Issue to light. Frank and I are just the messengers in a story that needed to be told. Frank has paid his dues, and I, I am just one of the hundreds of thousands of this freedom movement doing the best I can. So, my words should carry no more weight that any of the facts that can be proven by Santoro's own words. Make up your mind purely on his political views, and his actions.
We are still to hear, other than by implication, what his policies are, neither have I seen an essay on his personal beliefs and philosophy.
This great essay by Rick talks of the three C's, I will use one:
Compromise:
I wish Mr. Santoro the best of luck in his run as a Republican for Florida Senate . Hope that he his lobbying has a positive effect on the party. And that if elected his votes are constitutionally consistent.
And I will add an I:
Integrity *4
Personally, I'm unable to endorse Mr. Santoro, as his views go against those I spouse.
In a final note; I thank Rick for this forum, his willingness to open up the discussion and also THANKS to those of you who care to comment.
To all the silent voices... tdsskkk, tdssskk.. tdsskkk.....
All having been told, I'll go back to the dark chocolate, smart woman, and sit back, to let you guys -if you care to- debate, or just read your opinion on the bigger picture of whether it is ok for any self-proclaimed "freedom candidate" to endorse a neocon.
Boris in Miami
*1 http://ronpaulsacrossamerica.com/2007/08/19/florida-dean-santoro-21st-di...
*2 http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2008/04/diaz-balarts-pr.htm...
*3 http://www.rlcfl.org/
*4 http://www.breakthematrix.com/node/8261
"Integrity is the basing of one's actions on an internally consistent framework of principles. Depth of principles and adherence of each level to the next are key factors. One is said to have integrity to the extent that everything one does is derived from the same core set of values. While those values may change, it is their consistency with each other and with the person's actions that determine one's degree of integrity."*
You'll all come to know in time that it's Frank's angry writing all along no matter what account he uses or what pseudo-name he writes under.
Neither individual has any local credibility in Miami and not much in the cyberworld. I invite you all to learn about the real Frank Gonzalez and the real Boris Morales. Make it a point to ask some folks who can relay their stories independent of mine: On MySpace you can ask EmilySixx, Gina Philospohia and Erin For Ron Paul just to start... I'm confident your independent polling of these folks will tell a much different story than presented here by the hateful, spiteful attacks on me by the two spurned protesters. They agreed two days ago to stop in a response to Rick Williams but they never will - their jealously and hatred goes to their core. Their intent is to try and have me removed from this site as a featured columnist. That much should be clear to anyone who reads their rants.
And why was I asked by Rick Williams and Trevor Lyman to be a featured columnist? Because I have worked my tail off for the freedom movement!! Because my work was heard, seen and recognized as worthy of the honor. I do not take this opportunity lightly nor will I cheapen the status or integrity of the BTM effort. And why were neither Frank or Boris asked to write a featured column? Why do they incessently rail against me taking everything I say (and everything all of YOU say in response) and twist it to their point of view? Because they have an agenda - a hateful, personal, spiteful agenda. Yes I tried to ignore them as I have successfully done for more than 8 months now. But I was asked to reply and clarify my position and actions and I did. But it will never be satisfactory to them. You've heard the saying "Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"...
Let's clarify Frank's claims of his 41% of the vote in 2006.... you could have put a goat up against the incumbent in 2006 and the goat would have received 41% !!!! The other 2 cuban congressional representatives were challenged in 2006 and their challengers received 38% and 44% respectively... this was the anti-incumbent vote... hardly a victory for Frank Gonzalez... no one even knows his name around Miami... he's the proverbial fart in the breeze. Frank's dependence on his skewed statistic is misleading at best and disingenuous at its core.
He and his minion Boris were removed from my Ron Paul meetup for their vulgar, disruptive behavior - as was my right and duty as the meetup organizer and group leader. They were free to start their own meetup and when they finally did 4 months later, it failed because no one wanted to do all things THEIR way. Now they're causing the same disruption here... and Frank's vulgarity already had his account removed after just 2 DAYS!!! Now he uses the Borisimo account to spew his vile... folks are seeing through it. It's clear as a bell.
Feel free to also contact anyone from my previous Ron Paul Meetup (RONPAUL.MEETUP.COM/9) - Yami, Charlie, Jorge, Hector, Kathy. Federico, Jack etc etc etc... a group I left in good hands with Jorge Ramos because I have many other responsibilities to focus on.
These personal attacks will never stop because neither of these individuals can stomach defeat. I could get elected to the presidency, abolish all lobbyist activity, restore the constitution in full, establish citizen oversight on government, make pork barrel legislation illegal and they will STILL find something wrong with me. To boot, Frank has been kicked out the democratic party, booted out of the Libertarian party and banned from the Republican party. If this is the type of activism you prefer, then reading my column won't be your cup of tea... and that's ok too. You are free to practice whatever form of activism that works for you.
It's time to end this sillyness. There's free speech and there's censorship... and then there's petty jealously and distractions. If Frank/Boris utilized his energy to focus on the issues instead of deceiving the BTM community with this folly, maybe then he'd EARN the respect he feels he is entitled to.
Now if it's all the same, I'd like to get back to my nephew's 7th birthday party... let's keep the dicussion focused on issues... :-)
I support his idea. Please contact all the people he has mentioned and ask them what they have witnessed, or seen themselves of these behavior Santoro acuses me and Frank of. Also feel free to contact Granny Warrior whom he mentioned before.
Perhaps Santoro who before had accused me of sexually harasing someone at his meetup group can show proof of that. Or now his changed.... "vulgar, disruptive behavior" show proof or witnesses to that.
And perhpaps you can enlighten this "loser" with your positions, on those great articles you are still to write.
Dean, don't flatter yourself. Go and enjoy the party, and lets go back to the issues; Is it ok to call one self a "freedom candidate" and endorse a neocon?
Boris in Miami
frank, it must be really weird for you to be writing "me and frank".
keep the crazy down a bit or you'll pull a frank again. you'll be forced to create yet another account.
I could get elected to the presidency, abolish all lobbyist activity, restore the constitution in full, establish citizen oversight on government, make pork barrel legislation illegal"
Ok, I could support that.
it's obvious that frank is crazy. but i'm sure i speak for many of us when i say, thanks for elaborating.
in their community. I think that a community may be a physical location close to where one lives, and that it may also exist online. The online community is what made a difference in the Ron Paul campaign. I think it is as real as a room filled with local business leaders, politicians, and the fire marshal.
Pounding the pavement is admirable. I also think that pounding the keyboard and communicating with people online is highly effective. The internet is really powerful -- it allows for forums to develop where you don't have to wait in line, make a contribution, or know the right people to have your opinion heard.
We still don't understand the full impact of the internet but it's obvious that it is having a tremendous effect on politics as well as other fields. Politics was never the same after TV and the internet has also altered the trajectory.
It has basically brought an end to the music industry (as we knew it) and is changing the publishing industry and politics and so many other industries.
The physical, in the flesh approach to politics will always be strong and influential but there are other methods that may also yield results.
compelling presentation... online work does have it's place... but nothing takes the place of live human interaction... perhaps a combination of both???
Every single person who writes threads or comments or posts here at BreakTheMatrix is ACTING. Getting the message out will take hundreds of voices; thousands. Voices reinforcing each other; voices giving support; voices adding humor; ; voices with new ideas; voices sharpening and improving the message with constructive criticism and new ways of phrasing the words. Pounding keyboards IS acting. R
me on that
Yes, Rick. I'm with Big Red. I'd like to hear from a bigger percentage of the 5K plus people on how they feel about the "playing politics" issue. Do we make deals with the enemy to win victories for freedom? I tried to open it up during the "controversy," but the only ones who posted were Dean, Boris, and I. Perhaps you could do a featured blog on the subject. Go back to my posts and pose the question to the whole site. I really think it's important and I personally haven't reached a solid conclusion yet (although I found Dean's argument compelling, no one else stepped up to challenge other than Boris. Although I respect Boris, there is some history between him and Dean, and I'd love to hear some opinions from someone besides Boris and me).
I think this is hugely important. Please consider opening it back up for a non-Dean related debate. Thanks!
Tom Mullen
www.tommullen.net
www.myspace.com/skepticsongs
I am glad to see some intellectual debate sprouting here... like I said in my post I'm not claiming I am right adn everyone should do what I do, I'm just doing what feels right to me. And I'm proud of my progress. I don't brag about it nor post incessantly about it - I was forced to respond to accusations that were skewed by personal bias. Judge one on his/her accomplishments and failures. Each person struggling to make strides toward freedom may choose different roads. And that's ok - there is no "one way" - if there was then neither yours nor my opinion would matter. Those that tell you the 'right' way to do everything are totalitarian and facsist. There's plenty of historical precedent and empirical evidence to draw from. That said, if someone sells out the freedom movement down the road there was nothing you or I could do to stop it. We can only follow and support those that established a pattern of action that furthers the agenda... and we can't control others we can only control ourselves.
If we don't leave ourselves a set of gracefully decaying "plans B,C,D", then we are making the freedom movement into a Ron Paul "cult of personality".
Barr/Root, 50 States, high vote totals, and Root in the whitehouse in 2012.
The only way to go.
-The Jury
"I'm voting for Wayne Root, the Libertarian Candidate for President of the United States, on November 6, 2012. Root is currently the 2008 Vice Presidential Candidate for the Libertarian Party." http://www.rootforamerica.com
http://www.fija.org
This whole subject that skeptic has been raising about acceptable versus unacceptable compromise is hugely important imho. It's not just an issue for Dean-- the question comes up for all of us-- and for BreakTheMatrix itself. Is it possible to bring fundamental change without participating in the system-- which necessarily requires compromises of one form or another? Over and over we've seen people with seeming "principles" go corrupt at the first, or second or twentieth opportunity. Seems like such an endless cycle, and yet . . . R
Hey Rick - I agree this is a huge issue... IMHO I don't think there is only 1 way. I think there will be 300 million ways to freedom - one way for each american... and maybe there will be 6 Billion ways...one for each person on the planet... I've been in the trenches for over a year now and I'm trying to bring that perspective to the discussion. I don't require that folks agree with me but I do ask that they take into account the information I relay and respect my efforts without engaging in personal attacks on my character.
I witnessed the efforts of those that protested & picketed (2 P's) and it got them and their ilk nowhere... I even participated in some of those activities. But I was frustrated by and I decided for myself I would try another track - to get on the inside and work with the supposed 'enemy'. What I've found is there are MANY people inside who are tired of the corruption, sick of the banal rhetoric and fed up with the blind loyalty toward party leaders who sell out their principles. They WANT strong, new leadership. They want politicians to be proud of. But they are torn between party loyalty and personal strife.
It's hard to get up in front of a group of Republican hardcore and state that a Republican has betrayed their principles... it's an unspoken principle of edification. In other words, ya just don't do it!!
But we must start doing it... in an instructive and constructive manner.
This is the road I've chosen. And I'm not looking to the freedom movement community for approval - there will ALWAYS be dissention amongst the ranks - for all kinds of reasons, noble and not-so-noble. Sorry if that sounds harsh or arrogant, but we don't have the time to waste to talk strategy for the next 20 years while our freedoms are stripped away.
You are correct in that the 'endless cycle' aspect will prevail. I'm just not getting on that treadmill - I'm makin' tracks on the pavement...
dean
"What I've found is there are MANY people inside who are tired of the corruption, sick of the banal rhetoric and fed up with the blind loyalty toward party leaders who sell out their principles."
This is so true - I would bet that there are many Republicans in Congress who would like to vote with Ron Paul, and who realize that NAFTA, the Iraq War, the Patriot Act, etc. are totally antithetical to the "pro-American" agenda. Many people in Washington probably wouldn't have gone there if they didn't have some sense of patriotism and love of our Constitution. Guys like Duncan Hunter, Dana Rohrabacher, etc. - if we continue to grow this movement and demonstrate to them that liberty is popular, and that Americans are not so dumbed down as the foreign elite-controlled media would have them believe, I think that they and others will see the light.
. . . Action is what's needed. Either we all start doing something, or our existing leaders will give us more of the same; more decline, more failure, more bankruptcy, more debt. More of the same-- it's all those losers have to offer. But that's why our freedom movement will prevail. It's why I'm so optimistic. Once we get our message out, the American people will be with us. And as Dean points out-- the world. R
If that doesn't happen, 2008 is a waste. Even if Barr doesn't win, it's a huge victory to have 50 states of ballot access.
All is lost if we support some loser Church+ State party with 10 states of ballot access (Constipation Party).
-The Jury
"I'm voting for Wayne Root, the Libertarian Candidate for President of the United States, on November 6, 2012. Root is currently the 2008 Vice Presidential Candidate for the Libertarian Party." http://www.rootforamerica.com
http://www.fija.org
By what do you mean consensus? Do you mean a good majority of the people who are here, or all of them, or just those that read the forum and post? And how do you define swearing? Do you mean specific words or do you mean all words or phrases meant to insult or deride another? If you are barring profanity, are there any times in which what could be considered profane in one context might not be profane in another?
if you scan thru the previous threads rick has referenced you will find out the answer to your questions.