Did you know that Santoro who was running for US Congress and is now running for Florida Senate, is deeply involved with the very corrupt and neo-con Miami Dade County Republican Party? That he negotiated to leave the US Congress campaign so that the neo con incumbent could run unopposed, and that in return they promised him that he would himself run unopposed in his Florida race? Not only that, but he went the whole nine yards and ENDORSED his opponent Lincoln Diaz-Balart, the currupt neo-con
This is what Frank Gonzalez was hinting at on his very controversial post. Frank Gonzalez ran for US Congress in 2006 in the same district and got 41% of the vote in the general election! And that was by himself, running on a freedom platform, pre Ron Paul mania!
Frank and the local Ron Paul supporters are very upset that Santoro would claim to be a Ron Paul republican and at the same time endorse an entrenched neocon who endorses McCain who endorses Bush. In a way, Santoro has endorsed Bush.
He has lied about many people including me and will say that I "sexually harassed" someone in the meetup group. It is an outright lie, and the typical politician deflection.
He has never addressed the issue, and continues to lie, deceive and undeservedly to call himself a Ron Paul republican. He is unworthy of the name.
Don't let this reflect poorly on BTM, they are not to blame in any manner. Rather, we (those aware of the sell out) would love to see BTM prosper and fullfil its goals.
Boris in Miami
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Politics is not a science, its about forming relationships, give and take, some times you end up shoulder to shoulder with a person who would otherwise be your enemy on an issue where there is room to compromise, and some day, maybe the favor will be reciprocated. If you put your foot down and don't budge for anything ever, you won't get very far at all. one must pick and choose his battles.
its absurd to think that all neocons are horrible evil people. Many are potential allies who will come around as our national situation reveals itself to be more dire than the Aristocracy lets on.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
Someone who finally gets it!!! You are truly a 'revolution' man
Dean Santoro also has a Democratic opponent a tax and spend liberal who comes from apolitical family and was hoping to be crowned as senator in district 35. De4an has new innovativwe ideas that can bring realistic, free market reforms to Florida's education system.
You can either support Dean or let a socialist waltz into the senate. I suggest you folks contribute to Deans Campaign or volunteer as a precinct captain if you live in the district.
Where were Dean's advisers when he needed them most? You mustn't leave him to write unattended again.
You are now taking control of the conversation and bringing it to policy, I like that!
Would these reforms be constitutional? I'm most interested to learn what you mean by "free market". Would it be really "free market" and devoid of government intervention or you mean "free market" controlled by the state? Has Santoro written a position paper himself on this or any other matter?
Discussions like this would help anyone's run.
Thank you,
Boris
"Awesome" I'm very much real ( http://www.strike-the-root.com/archive/antunez.html, http://www.miaminewtimes.com/1994-08-31/news/antunez-for-president/ ) these links may prove that.
Boris
I'm a bit older than you and have come to the realization that our time in existence is extremely limited. I have also come to see that not everyone thinks like me (or you), that not everyone has the same capacity to reason, perspective or insight. If you really listen to people you may come to this conclusion, and then plan your strategy from that point on.
I am just as anxious for change as anyone else, I want freedom from government taxation and opression ASAP. There are various paths, all have their plus and minuses;
-You may attempt to ram your opinions down other peoples throats, this tends to alienate many of the folks you are trying to bring on board.
-You can "rage against the machine" in a peaceful manner, maybe get arrested for your cause a la Thoreau, or Ghandi (worked for Ghandi, MLK and some others but thousands more have suffered their imprisonment in quiet futility, though i still find there efforts admirable).
-You can take up arms against your opprssors, again this has worked in a few instances throughout history but most of the time (especially recently) these attempts end in defeat, death, obscurity and sometimes even infamy, since the victors write the history.
-You can look for chinks in the systems armor, study the political landscape and take a very close look at the electorate and plan a strategy based on those realities. We all know most folks want more freedom but we also know that the majority fear radical changes and have a certain level of comfort in the status qou. Taking all this into consideration if you are going to achieve a peaceful and electoral victory that will bring more liberty to the people you must work within the existing framework. It does not mean you walk in lockstep with those you disagree with, but if there are points of convergence emphasize those , using that as a base to continue to change the system. It may not happen overnight, but you must always remember that we didn't get here overnight either, and that todays problems have existed since the beggining of recorded time.
"In times like these it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these" Paul Harvey
Boris if you read history and philosophy extensively and walk amongst the people today, you will find that when it comes to human nature there's nothing new under the sun.
“If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.”
Henry David Thoreau
Regards
Emiliano
i just noticed that your sole discussion partner Emiliano has joined btm less the 5 hours ago. and immediately proceeded to discuss with you this important topic. you're creating fake accounts now that seemingly disagree with you but give you a chance to keep commenting?
frank, you're even more crazy than i thought.
OMG - this is borderline ridiculous... they can't stop... does anyone mind if I don't respond to their postings anymore? I don't want the BTM community to think I'm ignoring them but how many times can I answer the same thing spun 688 different ways?? No explanation is ever satisfactory for these two. What is this unnatural OBSESSION with me? It's getting creepy...
I can't possibly FIND all these threads Frank & Boris have started about me... !!!
yuk
i'm really surprised you responded in the first place. i think you made your point and i think frank made your point as well. so i think it's more than enough from your end. good luck with your politicking.
but you're like a bad ex.
you have to understand that you're not wanted anymore.
move on with your life. maybe get therapy to deal with the loss.
Boris et al
Once upon a time I would've admired and endorsed your uncomprimising stance, but reality is not on your side.
-Dean Santoro would have been squashed by L D-B (Lincoln Diaz-Balart) in a Republican primary, only a totally delusional lunatic would argue that point.
-Dean Santoro is a member of the Republican Party as is Lincoln Diaz-Balart who BTW has a Democratic opponent former Hialeah Mayor Raul Martinez. Lincoln and Dean are fully aware that they do not agree on some issues, but Dean has even less in common with Raul Martinez whose checkered past as Hialeah Mayor makes him much less palatable. REALITY there are only TWO candidates to choose from.
_as for not mingling with "neo-cons" Ron Paul just co-sponsored a Mortgage Bill with congressman Mario Diaz-Balart (Lincoln's younger brother)
-If your intention is to change the system within its parameters in a peaceful manner then seeking AND WINNING elected office is one of the ways this can be done.
- This can't be done living in a non-comprimising pure fantasyland. Unless your planning some sort of coup or miltary takeover (of fanatasyland) there is no other route.
-I can only hope you realize all this before its too late.
Emiliano
Your comments are such a wonderful addition to this conversation. I can't remember one single post that addressed the issue so head on as you just did.
On your comment above however you mention "mingling" which was not the issue. The issue mentioned before was one of Endorsement. Which means a very different thing.
I will disagree with you on your assertion that we must select the lesser of two evils. Compromising and negotiating behind backdoors might get a Republican elected; and I really don't see the point of electing another vetted Republican. But as this revolution shows us, many people are eager for the truth, and a moral stance. We must have the valor to risk it all for all. For it is the only way that this war can be won.
If as you say, there is little chance of winning with the uncompromising strategy, then let it be what it can best serve us as; a campaign of Constitutional education. Not one where we teach our freedom troops that compromise is the pathway to restoring the Republic.
Emiliano, you have been a complete gentleman with me in the past. I thank you for that. Will you take a shot at giving me an answer no one so far has tackled?
Can a self proclaimed "freedom candidate" endorse a neocon and still keep his integrity?
Thank you,
Boris
PS; http://www.breakthematrix.com/node/8261
Here is reality. Every election season, opponents from the same party battle with each other, accusing each other of everything they can think of. Hillary and Obama are bitter enemies right now. They have accused each other of everthing they think they can possibly substantiate with even the most strained logic or evidence. If Obama wins, sooner or later Hillary will endorse him. Romney attacked McCain as viciously as possible until he knew he coudn't win, then endorsed him. It is not a new phenomenon. It is as old as politics itself. While candidates are competing for the prize, they try to exploit any perceived weakness of the other side. When the fight is over, they endorse the candidate they would most like to see win - even if that candidate is not 100% in line with their principles. 70% beats 15%. So, Edwards endorses Obama, even though Edwards tried to convince America that Obama was not the right man for the job of president. It's politics. It is not limited to Republicans or Democrats, not even if you count TRUE Republicans, of which there are very few.
On the endorsement issue, again I say, let it go. If Dean wins the state senate seat, we will watch his voting conduct. If he betrays the movement, I will help you to expose him. However, you have to give him a chance. He hasn't even won the job yet. He may have played some dirty political hardball - I honestly don't know. However, we will never be more than an academic blog unless we get some people into office and fight with the weapons that are available to us - legislation. What do you say - are there other fights to put this energy into besides this one? I think there are, and we could use your ferocity somewhere else.
Tom Mullen
www.tommullen.net
www.myspace.com/skepticsongs
tom. i have a serious question regarding this response of yours.
in my opinion at least, you're an intelligent and articulate man.
so i have to assume that you must understand why frank keeps posting these comments.
i assume that you know, as i do, that his intention with these comments is not to get answers to anything he's asking, but rather to keep his rhetorical questions visible. as he hopes to sway opinion about his nemesis Santoro.
knowing this, i must ask: why do you respond to him with proper arguments instead of just making a silly joke?
It isn't about Dean. The 'ferocity' is put behind this:
Goldwater's freedom movement gave us Reagan. Because they lacked the moral compass with which to measure Reagan and Bush. It seems to me that we might be losing our bearings as well.
Will we Endorse those who spouse views AGAINST liberty to try to get liberty?
Thanks, Tom
practical suggestion I've heard here
[Here's my attempt to change the subject on a seemingly pointless hissing-match.]
Tom (Mullins):
Speaking of how We the People can change the trajectory of corrupt American politics ('Break the Matrix'), you say:
"...we stand on principle every time, never compromising. However, I don't know that it is realistic to think that you are going to make even a dent in the political system without, well, playing politics. Perhaps I am wrong - can we win without making deals? At the same time, if we DO play politics and try to "infiltrate them," rather than defeat them in open warfare, do we BECOME them in the meantime?"
This is a false dichotomy (fallacy of the excluded middle). What if the Internet eclipsed the old party politics a long time ago...and most of us know this...but we just haven't seen how to use this new plebiscite power effectively?
By "old party politics", I'm talking about the kind of sociopolitical calculus you've just done. Why do we still have to use "voting them in" or "voting them out"...or even "voting with our feet", when we have already demonstrated, as a nation, that when we want something badly enough...we just TAKE IT!?
I'm not talking about anarchy or lawlessness. We want our Constitution and our Republic back. We have that Law of the Land, and we have over 150 million of us (adults); what's holding us back? Voting!!?
Did everybody have to VOTE Microsoft into its place of dominance? Did we go to the polling place, or walk our precincts, to get people to start using Google, eBay, or whatever?
No! The Internet -- like the printing press on steroids, with wings -- changed the world, and we're still trying to clear our heads enough to figure out what that means. After the coming of the printing press, the ancien regime throughout all of Europe was threatened with extinction and collapse. The people now had information that began to eat away at the corrupt foundations of wicked rulers everywhere. Truth began to win out.
People didn't have to vote for it. They began to USE it.
I wish you folks would seriously consider my America Again! project. You need to read the declaration and just imagine what you can do to/with your own US representative in his/her own hometown, right where you live.
Forget the voting thing; forget making deals with corrupt political machines. You and a bunch of your friends hold an Independence Day rally at the City Park (or wherever). You invite your US representative (to be sure, (s)he won't come...too afraid!) and you read that declaration, as finally amended. It's just a list of the violations of law -- of the US Constitution -- that your US representative is guilty of.
You read the list of legislation that you demand he/she must pass...and you promise to get him/her indicted on criminal charges in your state (not federal) court if (s)he continues to conspire with like-minded scoundrels back in D.C. to continue defrauding you.
You don't worry, in other words, about who you vote in nearly so much as you worry about ENFORCING the Constitution, and issuing a very public report card, every single Independence Day...with refreshments and fireworks following.
It's the kind of thing our forefathers would have loved. Heck, they'd have done it themselves.
Voting will get you diddly-squat at this hour of the day. Although Frank Capra's Mr. Smith Goes to Washington was made 70 years ago, it was terribly naive -- impossible -- even then, to see such 'reform' in Congress led by one honest man (as Ron Paul's uphill battle for decades proves!)
Voting will do nothing at this hour of the day, until you start firing some buckshot into the snake-pit. I think America Again! will knock their hat in the creek.
But only if we try it, of course.
The deafening silence... as if discussed and agreed on. :0) Perhaps endorsing a neocon is the newest trend in the trenches. :0)~
Well, Thank you BTM for giving me this forum to voice my displeasure. Kudos to you. Just wish the people here would care to comment a bit more.... But alas... Perhaps we'll ignore it and it'll go away... and then the revolution won't have to deal with these issues again.
THE LINKS IN THE POST HAVE BEEN FIXED. TAKE A LOOK!
Here is the issue in a nutshell, should anyone care to examine them and comment.
That a self professed freedom candidate is running with the neocons and endorsing them.
Endorsement means support, and implies that the endorser is requesting that people vote for the endorsee.
Integrity means remaining true to one self.
The questions are:
~~ Can someone be a freedom candidate while at the same time endorsing those who are against freedom?
~~Can someone who professes to be for freedom endorse an enemy of freedom while maintaining his integrity?
And if the deafening silences decides to ignore these important questions... then perhaps... try clicking your heels twice and this will go away.... :0)
Boris in Miami
I don't understand why everyone is giving Boris a hard time.
None of his comments have been offensive, yet they are marked down.
Have we gone so low as to develop a clique here at BTM and just vote people down, no matter what they say, just because you may not like them (for whatever reason)?
Distgusting.
-Miss Green
"Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it."
Why is Boris getting a bad time?
Thank you Miss Green.
While it is very nice to see the arrow on top of the article go up, I don't really care when they vote me down. If they dislike the issue they are free to vote it down.
What is downright displeasing is to see that not many people have bothered to write about this very important issue.
Silence, specially by those entrusted with public positions can be very telling. They concede the point and hope that it would go away. Well, perhaps, they are right, and the Revolution will be worse off because of them.
Thanks again Green,
Boris in Miami
www.myspace.com/ronpaullegacy
Well, I wouldn't worry about it.
There are just some people that are antagonists and the only reason they are here is to argue, no matter what the topic.
I just hope they realize it's hurting the revolution, and not helping it.
-Miss Green
"Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it."
"Untainted and Without Bias" is a riff on "Fair and Balanced" right -- I can't tell if this is a joke or some sly provocation or what
Comments anyone, Swarelis - the communist perspective...
Dean is a politician
How come Dean never comments though -- that aggravates me. Rick, Trevor and Lisa all play with the little people
By the way did Frank really have his profile deleted?
Dean, I think that you should respond to this, not because you owe it to anyone, but because it is a VERY relevant issue.
If you are truly a "wolf in sheep's clothing," i.e. a neo-con that's just using us, I assume you will never tell us. However, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this: You thought you could do a lot more from within the government, actively voting in the state senate, than out of government in a failed bid for U.S. House. So, you made a deal with this neo-con's people for an endorsement that wouldn't change the outcome and would result in a state senate seat for you. I would appreciate confirmation of this, if you are so inclined.
Regardless of Dean's response, or lack thereof, this brings up a hugely important issue, worthy of debate. We are in a fight for our rights, and the alternative to taking up arms is to try to win back our rights through the political system, which is the course we've chosen. The political system is a system of horsetrading, compromise, and sometimes even intrigue.
The question is this: Do we make deals with the enemy when it will advance our cause? Do we endorse a neo-con, or a Democrat, if it will get us into a seat whereby we can vote against them?
The easy answer is "no," we stand on principle every time, never compromising. However, I don't know that it is realistic to think that you are going to make even a dent in the political system without, well, playing politics. Perhaps I am wrong - can we win without making deals?
At the same time, if we DO play politics and try to "infiltrate them," rather than defeat them in open warfare, do we BECOME them in the meantime? Are we so jaded by the time we get into that state senate seat, or U.S. House seat, or even town supervisor seat, that we are no longer what we were when we started? Or, do the ends justify the means, as we will vote a pro-freedom platform once in office - the only place we can directly make a difference.
I know this is not a new question, but I think it is new for this Revolution. We may be just realizing we have to answer it.
As for Ron Paul, it seems that he is willing to work with Dennis Kucinich on some issues, when they agree, even though the Democrats are diametrically opposed to the principles of freedom (as much as the neo-cons - let's not forget that!)
What is the best course? I am anxious to hear where everyone stands.
Tom Mullen
www.tommullen.net
www.myspace.com/skepticsongs
In my opinion, he can run as a Liberty Caucus Republican, a Reagan Republican, or a plain Republican. But once you have endorsed a neo con, you can't run as a freedom movement republican.
The neocons will not let anyone infiltrate them. It is silly of us to think that we can sleep with them and not catch their disease. Worse part is that Frank Gonzalez got 41% of the vote without Ron Paul troops in 2006 in the same district, it would have been easy for any true Ron Paul candidate to get elected. Santoro lacked support locally, because here, people know him.
Boris in Miami
www.myspace.com/ronpaullegacy
> He has lied about many people including me and will say that I "sexually harassed" someone in the meetup group.
Frank, you have to learn to keep your hands to yourself. you can't hide behind freedom of expression when it comes to fondling young RP supporters. that's not what the RP meetup group is for.
C'on you can do better than this. Address the issue, that is what comments are for. This is your time to shine.
Boris in Miami
just tell me, does Santoro know you personally? have you met him ever?
I have met him.
you shook his hand once?
you spend a day talking to him?
you know where i'm going with this, right?