But really to me it's a non issue. I think Jefferson said it best when he said that "it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg". His faith or lack thereof is not why I support Ron Paul either, i support him because he has been the most sincere when it comes to defending the Constitution, and from what i've seen has not let his own personal beliefs in a deity affect that in one way or the other.

"What luck for Rulers that Men do not think" - Hitler

I ACCEPT the Modern Theory of Evolution as sound science: it is not a belief, any more than blueberry cheesecake is a shoe style.

-SG

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."

The Grackle's Nest I

Evolution FTW!

What people need to understand, is that you cannot empirically prove creation or evolution (and for those of you saying you BELIEVE in evolution, thank you for being honest).

Now from doing A LOT of research on this topic over the past 5 years, I've found much more scientific and logical sense in Creation, however, I am not going to talk about that.

What we should be discussing, is that if neither is provable empirically (and yes, that would make evolution a religious idea by definition, and that you have all the free right in this country to believe in)... why are we teaching evolution as fact in our public school systems? Shouldn't I have the right NOT to pay for those textbooks that teach against what I believe?

I'm so glad there are so many people on this site that are against the Dept of Education (bring it down, w00t!)... but it goes deeper. Go to any communist country in the world, and check out their schools... they will be teaching what? Communism? No, my friends... they teach evolution. It is REQUIRED for communism to survive. The idea that rights do not come from God, they come from the state.

Whether or not evolutions agree or disagree with that is not the point. The purpose of this is the principle of what evolution teaches... and any teaching in general will imply morals. Evolution does imply morals, and children will learn these morals and then carry them out. The shootings in Columbine... the media made a lot of effort to cover up the t-shirts the kids were wearing that said "Darwinism" and "Natural Selection". They performed their executions of these children on Hitler's birthday... on purpose.

I have not read this entire forum section, I honestly don't have the patience to go through it all, haha! :) Many times I see people posting things that, though they are well intentioned, they've not studied thoroughly enough, but hey, we all have our expertise right? (I'm learning about hemp right now and I didn't know it existed until yesterday, and it's AWESOME!)

The issue that honestly should be raised... is why are we endorsing our now state-funded religion: Evolution. Why is it the bias? I quote Hitler: "Let me control the textbooks and I will control the state." Hitler: "Tell a lie loud enough and long enough, and the people will believe it." Hitler: "The people are more likely to believe a big lie, than a small one." It was the belief in Evolution that drove most of Hitler's actions.

As we in the freedom movement have seen... there are many hoaxes at work. Unfortunately, it seems every person I talk to can only see a few of them, but not all. I will be starting a youtube channel soon to discuss not only the issues of our cause for freedom, but also the massive wool of evolution that has been pulled over the eyes of the American people. I hope I'll be able to post that somewhere here after I get some recording done.

There are some great books you all can read if you want a good understanding to this "debate"... Darwin's Black Box, Michael Behe (explains the biochemical challenge to evolution; I heard Micheal Shermer in a debate say that he had no evolutionary explanation to this) -- Darwin on Trial, Phillip Johnson (puts Darwin's concepts in a court of law; science proves law)

The burden of proof, however, belongs solely to the evolutionist. Creationists are not asking for taxpayers dollars to teach creation, but evolutions are. Since our tax dollars are paying for it to survive and be taught, we need the empirical evidence to support it. If they cannot produce it (and I've been looking for empirical evidence for evolution for 5 years now, looking to the top minds in evolutionary sciences to provide it, and have seen nothing empirical), then we need to abolish it from our classrooms, and stop forcing the people to pay for it.

I would love to go through all the examples and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE taking questions and challenges, but you can contact me if you want more information. I'll be putting up as much as I can on the youtube channel. I hope this will shift the discussion a bit, not to argue between the two, but to argue the larger issues of principle and why evolution is in our public school system when no other religion is allowed. There is a bigger plan for the cause of evolution in our schools, formed by the neo-cons, than some of you may realize.

-Christopher Johnson, Columbus OH

We all know what a "brain" is. If you ever see what gets squished out of a head, you say "eww, that’s a brain!”

And "mind" is what the brain creates, via synaptic switching and chemicals and electrical impulses and biological stuff.

Mind is where memory and thoughts all derive, and the latest theory is that it takes much of the brain to create the personal illusion that there is a central "I" within the mind. The parts of the brain all act to create the perceptions we think of as "us", similar to a holographic image. Lots of parts assembled to make a ‘mind”.

So what then, would be "soul"?

Does soul contain mind, even though mind is generated by brain?

Or does soul exist apart from mind?

If soul exists apart from mind, does it take what mind contains (thoughts and memories) with it when it departs? If so, how can this occur without taking the brain too, when it is the brain that creates the illusion of mind to begin with, by assembling "mind" within its own assemblage of organic parts? Without brain, there is no mind, so how can "soul" run off with something that cannot exist apart from its creator, brain?

And if mind doesn't go with "soul" to the big party, why worry about "soul" and where it goes when one dies, because without mind, there is no feeling, memory etc... or ability to remember, or suffer, or nuthin' with which to either suffer for all of eternity (in one scenario) or rejoice (in the less dramatic and happier scenario)?

Why are all you religious nuts wasting your sundays in the pews when your soul's next destination is inconsequential due to its lack of "mind" caused by what we like to refer to around my house as a "dead ass brain"?

Are you really that crazy?

"What differences are we willing to put aside for freedom?
0I believe in creation, and I am pleased with the progress of ID science, as it further reveals what I believe to be the truth about life on our neat little planet, but I am not sure why this topic needs to be used as a wedge to drive between us here? If we cannot agree to put aside some less urgent differences in order to preserve ourselves from the abject slavery inherent in the NWO, then what point is there in having BTM in the first place? "

One of the odd things I've become aware of while swimming through this "new" movement for Constitutional restoration is the "It's a Christian country based on Christian values" nonsense.

Refitting America to its original ideals ALSO means going back to the secular notions that were built into the founding arguments.

Religion has stepped into the political arena big time and has pretty much screwed it up. Those with self-proclaimed "Christian" morals have tried to get their morality imposed on the nation by forming coalitions and voting as a religio-poitical block.

What they have inadvertantly done is grant the notion that the federal government is a proper tool for moral over-lording, and have, as a consequence, granted the federal government the false notion that it has that authority. Religion has been a major player in the usurpation of individual liberties by a central government. Just look at how many religious money-grubbing scoundrels like Falwell, Robertson, Haggart, J. Jackson, Al Sharpton et al... congregate and feed at the federal trough...

Religion outside of closed doors is antithetical to freedom. Religion is an imposed structure of thought which oftentimes demands obeisance to particular rituals and beliefs. There is no "freedom" in that, and if you want the "freedom" movement to be what it claims to be, you have to remove all religiousity from its ideals or you are simply replacing one fascistic notion with another...

I believe in creation, and I am pleased with the progress of ID science, as it further reveals what I believe to be the truth about life on our neat little planet, but I am not sure why this topic needs to be used as a wedge to drive between us here? If we cannot agree to put aside some less urgent differences in order to preserve ourselves from the abject slavery inherent in the NWO, then what point is there in having BTM in the first place?

This is not important on this issue only, but also when it comes to others of fundamental belief, such as goddess worship versus God worship, earth worship versus Christ worship, among many. Is it even possible for us to put down our weapons of destruction on those topics and fight together against a common enemy so that we can continue to have those debates in the future? If not, then there will be no debate in the future, and we can all acquiesce today to the freedom-destroying, mind-sucking cabal that is working against all of us and stop wasting our time and energy in this hopeless pursuit of freedom. If we are not united then we are nothing. We need to refocus on what is most important and find ways to communicate with other freedom lovers that allow discussion of that purpose, and that keep us from offending each other while we pursue it. Without such a culture and method we are merely wasting our time and spinning our wheels. We will destroy each other--much to the delight of our common enemy.

And I would like to see 90% of the federal goverment disappear. My main politicial goal Abolish the federal reserve banking system.