http://www.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/scraper.htm
We need to partner with them or copy them...offering a bog brother free search engine would be good for our cause. Lots of publicity would be generated if we could cut back some of Googles growth or market share and we know we have the #'s to affect google search results.
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Your twisted logic would land you a great gig with Fox. What annoys me most about your posts is how you attempt to disect arguments logically --- when you're simply responding with opinions and rumour masquerading as facts.
I really think you should take a moment and research the topic before delivering another sermon.
Falun Gong is "some sort of cult from what I've heard."
Weren't you just accusing me of parroting what people tell me? You obviously haven't looked into this so I don't think you're qualified to engage in an informed discussion. If you ever do research the situation I'll be happy to engage in further discussion with you.
Why you'd feel so strongly about something you've only heard about second hand is bizarre to me.
Do you really think I've never heard of Ron Paul? Obviously you're not to be taken seriously.
I think BTM has finally given you a forum to show the world how smart you really are and unfortunately that's really annoying.
Try creating your own content or starting a new thread. That actually takes thought and creativity.
You're misguided here. I've seen you hone in on people and go on the attack a couple times and I think you're taste for blood has got you a little rabid.
China is a brutal dictatorship. Their level of censorship and control is one of the highest out there.
Are you familiar with Falun Gong? Have you paid any attention to the protests over the Olympics in China?
I didn't get this information on CNN or Fox. Have you seen any of this information on CNN or FOX or are you just making unfounded, emotional charged claims? If you're going to attack me, attack me with facts.
There are many reports on China's treatment of political dissidents and you won't find them in the MM. If you really are interested in educating yourself on the facts check out prison planet or do a "google" search of falun gong.
By the way I've recieved this information first hand from relatives of family members who have been imprisoned and tortured by the chinese authorities. The information is out there if you care to investigate on your own.
I am suggesting that they don't do business with a government that treats people this way. I don't think that's a revolutionary idea. I think that's a good idea.
Using products made in China is a very indirect way of assisting China but what I'm talking about is google officials drafting plans for internet security directly with China's leaders. That is a direct way of quelching free speech. I'd hate for that to happen here and I don't support it happening anywhere.
> You're misguided here. I've seen you hone in on people and go on the attack a couple times and I think you're taste for blood has got you a little rabid.
i don't 'go on the attack', that's the way you perceive it. i comment on other people's comments/posts in a nice way if i find them to be right on, and i comment in a not-so-nice way on those that are hypocritical and miss the point. you will not be hard pressed to find encouraging comments from me here.
> China is a brutal dictatorship.
it is a communist dictatorship. this is a fact. and if people in China don't like it that way, then it's on them to change that. not you or i.
> Their level of censorship and control is one of the highest out there.
that's not really true. Chinese citizens are fairly free to travel and they have access to the internet. there have been many a country that have oppressed their people much more than China. and those oppressive regimes have been defeated from the inside.
> Are you familiar with Falun Gong?
i've heard of it. it's some sort of cult from what i've heard. i have a good number of Chinese friends living here that are very opposed to this cult. if you're giving this as an example of lack of free speech then you should also mention scientology, another cult, which is outlawed in a number of countries in Europe (last i heard). i don't hear too many people antagonizing Europe for that but they don't miss a beat when it comes to criticizing China for the same thing.
> Have you paid any attention to the protests over the Olympics in China?
no, because this protest propaganda is a farce to me. the media is using the Olympics to draw attention to China and point out as much about what is wrong with them as possible. i'd rather focus on local issues that affect me and stay out of other people's business. China is for Chinese to change and shape, not me. the Chinese all around the world are so happy and proud that they're country is hosting the Olympic games and all they get to hear about is how evil and bad their country is. it's really sad. it's really sad to see people buy into it.
> I didn't get this information on CNN or Fox. Have you seen any of this information on CNN or FOX or are you just making unfounded, emotional charged claims?
just making unfounded claims.
> If you're going to attack me, attack me with facts.
i'm trying.
> There are many reports on China's treatment of political dissidents and you won't find them in the MM. If you really are interested in educating yourself on the facts check out prison planet or do a "google" search of falun gong.
why should i concentrate on China? why not Turkey? or Saudi Arabia? you're so outraged about China and you think you're part of a solution. i have a great number of Chinese friends here that feel genuinely hurt by all this media attention because it makes them feel like they're being demonized. in fact, recently, thousands of Chinese Americans signed a petition to make CNN apologize for all this negative attention on China. so it would serve you well to pay attention to what the people whose country you're so adamantly criticizing think and feel.
> I am suggesting that they don't do business with a government that treats people this way. I don't think that's a revolutionary idea. I think that's a good idea.
you're right, it's not a revolutionary idea. you should start listening to this one guy, Ron Paul, and hear what he has to say about doing business with foreign countries. if you wouldn't do business with countries that you don't approve the government of, you wouldn't have much of an international trade going. also, listen/read about what Chomsky has to say about what effect sanctions (what you're describing is sanctions, just so we're clear about this) have on the population of oppressive regimes. this is a ridiculous notion and it punishes the general population. now let's analyze the two situations, China with censored google search engine and China without a search engine. what is better for the people using the internet. do you hear the Chinese complaining about google setting up shop there? they don't have a problem with it, but you do.
so essentially you're saying that google is a bad company for giving an oppressed people a tool to better their lives.
> Using products made in China is a very indirect way of assisting China but what I'm talking about is google officials drafting plans for internet security directly with China's leaders.
yes. following their laws. this is how all companies operate everywhere, they follow local laws. this is what you have a problem with?
> That is a direct way of quelching free speech.
no it's not. free speech in China is already limited. google has done nothing to worsen the situation. in fact, it may act as a catapult to better it.
on their users and admittedly uses it for marketing. They have admittedly assisted China in censoring the internet. Let's put this in perspective --- those who speak out against the Gov't vehemently in China have had their organs harvested. Google has assisted these people.
> Google does collect information on their users and admittedly uses it for marketing.
what's wrong with that? google is in the business of cataloging information. doesn't your credit card company collect information on what you buy? doesn't your supermarket discount card collect information on what you buy? why do you propose that a private company collecting information on your habits is an evil thing?
> They have admittedly assisted China in censoring the internet.
they have followed laws in a country they wanted to do business in. are you suggesting that they set up shop in China and break her laws? or maybe you're proposing that they don't do business with China because they don't like her government?
> Let's put this in perspective --- those who speak out against the Gov't vehemently in China have had their organs harvested.
who told you this? you probably heard it on CNN or FOX.
> Google has assisted these people.
i'm typing this up on a lenovo laptop. made by a Chinese company. i guess i'm assisting 'these people' too.
you sound like a parrot, just repeating things you heard somewhere without giving it a second thought.
more: http://www.google-watch.org/jobad.html
Anyone remember the deal for Google to buy a stake in AOL? The key was AOL Instant Messenger, a multi-million user strong communication system. Mark my words: in less than 24 months Google will fully integrate with AOL, then will begin logging and capturing our conversations (meaningful or not).
And what protects you from this dystopian view of Google’s growth? A privacy policy. A one page document written by lawyers paid by Google to cover their own liability when things do go wrong. All your faith in a multi-billion dollar company whose sole job is to collect all the information in the world rests in that page; and, frankly, in Google you trust. I don’t.
Has anybody reviewed Google’s data disposal procedures? Exactly how long are search logs kept? Where does GMail go when it is “deleted?” Where do hard drives go when they die? Where are backup tapes secured? Is encryption in place? Has the company even been hacked? Are they willingly handing information over to the government behind users’ backs?
People willingly let Google do something that the NSA has wet dreams about doing: know EVERYTHING about you. You don’t even have to be a willing participant to be indexed. Soon, when Google lights up its dark fiber, they have the potential to be an internet backbone superpower. Once that happens, regardless of whether or not your web traffic is destined for Google, Google will have the power to catalog and retain this information anyway (Does the case of the secret AT&T wire tapping come to mind?).
And this is where the government steps in. To get these sensitive pieces of your life, all that the Justice Department needs is a secret warrant from a secret court (which they acknowledged exists), which is granted who knows how easily. User #8,889,863,279 is now publicly being scrutinized, no secrets.
Why is Google singled out? Because they are on the crusade to harvest all human data. But this litmus test should be for all providers of content. Hold them to higher standards than just a privacy policy,
and ask questions before you submit information.
> Mark my words: in less than 24 months Google will fully integrate with AOL
not only are you director of marketing for scroogle, but also a prophet. very impressive.
> Why is Google singled out?
because they're the main competition for your scroogle company?
> Because they are on the crusade to harvest all human data.
we should instead let scroogle "harvest human data". but of course, that makes perfect sense.
ok how about Google actively and openly working withcensors in China to keep information form citizens?
http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2008-04-29-n82.html
how about the free and open relationships between NSA and Google?
It is a strawman attack to characterize me as being in the "Technology is Slavery" camp. I am simply saying that if you'd like to not have the NSA and google creatign a huge database of your IP address and it's search terms and then using it for whatever the NSA, Feds, IRS, CIA want to use it for then using Scroogle is a good alternative to still be ablet o use the extremely valuable services that google does provide to people.
A Google search of "Tiananmen Square" in China yields very different results than one entered anywhere else in the world. No reference to the incident that caused international outrage will even show up; just some happy pictures of people celebrating the "great Communist state." In an Orwellian world, described in the novel 1984, where the government controls all information that is released to its citizens, forming an informed opinion is difficult. And in a country like China - which has a 99 percent conviction rate in its criminal trials - dissent is dangerous business.
now check out google video, why do they actively reset views from films unfriendly to the governemnt? and rpomote videos like this?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5246339709220843925&hl=en
if you follow the "popular videos" being promoted on google you'll see the same thing you see on Fox NEws or CNN...even if you think a Ron Paul or WTC7 clip or zeitgeist video is crappy...the ones that are have 10 times the hits as some Jeremiah wright video might never. You will see obvious statist bias in how google and Digg do their popularity rankings. If you don't see it then you really aren't paying attention. If you like google then keep using it...I was jsut letting people know some alternatives and arguing that BTM should also use the proven technology to help itself...that is far from anti-technology.
Digg killed my account last month. I'm done with them. I'm Google free for two days now. Today's scroogle display is great. If you are worried about the statist nature of google then you should really check out scroogle.org
digg killed your account. you're coming off my friends list. life goes on. nobody cares about your scroogle. go scroogle something yourself and stop polluting BTM with site advertisements.
scroogle marketing director: gabeh73
Statist nature of Google? Proof?
I agree. I will not use google out of principle, and this deserves consideration. In 2006, google announced that they would begin monitoring background ambient audio using the computer's microphone, and scanning it for keywords. They can pinpoint it down to minute 5 of Seinfeld episode 23, for example. Check out the paper they presented to the European Technology Conference, Summer 2006. Scary. Google = Big Brother
Article in question:
http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2006/06/interactive-tv-conference-and...
Looking deeper into the "Microphone recording" prototype you speak of...
From the article:
Their prototype software, detailed in a conference presentation in Europe last June, uses a computer's built-in microphone to listen to the sounds in a room. It then filters each five-second snippet of sound to pick out audio from a TV, reduces the snippet to a digital "fingerprint," searches an Internet server for a matching fingerprint from a pre-recorded show, and, if it finds a match, displays ads, chat rooms, or other information related to that snippet on the user's computer.
...
But the technology makes it impractical; at four bytes, the fingerprints don't contain enough information to reconstruct the original sounds in a room. "Some people did get the impression that we had an open microphone that was going to listen in on them," says Norvig. "Clearly, that was not what we were doing. We are transmitting a key that can be matched but not reversed. That said, users are giving up some information -- and that's something they have to decide about."
And one of the Digg commenters said:
I remember someone from Google saying that the idea that this would be implemented was "ridiculous".
Plus, I am pretty sure that one of the only ways they could do this - flash - wouldn't be able to do it without consent.
In any case, there would be a huge outcry if it did happen.
The article I read regarding this tech did say that Google was utilizing a Flash applet for accessing the microphone, which in current builds, asks permission before an applet takes control (or you have to manually set it). So no, not eavesdropping.
I have no problem believing that google can only get 4 bytes of audio info or they have no plans to record our conversations....that doesn't meen that I want the NSA going through my keyword searches.
On the other hand, there has never been a case wher eht governemnt coems out and overstates teh amount of freedom they plan on taking away...remember the old crap about ss#'s not being used to track us? remember the hilarity of ideas ebing proposed to regulate junk food because it makes people fat? your willingness to believe the absolute best scenario taking place with reagards to censoring info and tracking our keyword searches is much more goodwill than the government/google has earned in my opinion.
it's like you have so many fears that you want to believe in that you don't know how to structure all of them into separate paragraphs.
relax a bit. things are not as bad as you make them out to be.
there are a great number of honest hard working people that work on the systems you use everyday. they have to use these systems too. they have concerns of their own.
you keep that train of thought you got going there and pretty soon you'll move to the forest where you don't have to rely and trust no one.
we all got here because of nothing else but google and youtube, so please, no more crazy. k?
Relevant links:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/03/google_eavesdropping_software/
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/03/2148216
http://digg.com/tech_news/Google_to_Use_PC_Microphones_to_Listen_In_then...
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2006/060906spyon.htm
I'm sorry, but I'm not in the "Technology is Slavery" camp. Google helps me be free. I've found most my Liberty stuff through Google searches.
If you take proper precautions on the net, you have nothing to be worried about.
Hi Vitus-
I've used scroogle for some years now and find it gives the same results as google,
but shields your personal information.
I read through your posted links,which were nice, but gave no information as to the
'proper precautions' you refer to. Perhaps you could go into some more detail as to
what they might be; I think it might be very useful in the current climate.
Here's a proxy server: http://www.youhide.com/
Know any others? How do they work?
I know if I were NSA, scroogle would be a major target for infiltration, through the usual
blackmail and extortion, and its users would be at the top of the list for surveillance.
I refuse to live in a dictatorship.
"So"-Dick Cheney
Wow, this is utter fear mongering.
Google = Big Brother ?
Geez. Tone down the paranoia.
Google works with censors in China and it is known that Google works with the NSA to share info on citizens in this country. this much is not even debateable. If you think this is good then fine, that is your option, I can understand the opinion that there are much greater issus to worry about out there.
I'm glad you also are for a smaller government and agree with many at BTM that the mainstream media is filtering out very important messages from the public. I find it hard to understand how you could think Fox News and CNN and CBS are somehow not being honest with the public, yet there is nothing to fear with similar mainstream companies in the online sector. It is hardly fearmongering to suggest that the same forces that came up with Operation Mockingbird and censored Ron Paul info for the last 12 months has the capability to start trying to control information int he online sector as well.