There is a lot of bantering going on here at Break The Matrix. Christians rubbing shoulders with athiests. Theoretically pure libertarians mixed in with those who want less federal government but not necessarily no neighborhood government (me!!)... Conspiracy nuts going head to head with common sensical folks who are smart to question everything, even the conspiracies...

America!! It's a grand place for all of this diversity and free-speechifying and ego-centric politicizing...

One thing I have noticed though, were lacks of cohesive plans. Break The Matrix pretty much barks at its own fence posts. There is very little discussion on just what it is that we agree on that we want. There is very little sharp-stick focus on physical (outside of BTM's own audience) influence peddling.

So I wish to start the conversation rolling...

Here is one plan-- Questions For The Anointed.

I wrote up a few questions John McCain should answer during his "town hall" meetings, hopefully, with a video-taped response. Same for Barack Obama. They might not be the most pointed of questions, but they get the job done. What questions would you ask each of these men if you were trying to expose their political backsides and their ideological dark-orifices? Why not come up with say, seven finely honed questions for each candidate and post them wherever Obama and McCain supporters gather to drink in the Kool-Aid of their messiahs? Why not stand inside and outside of McCain and Obama ralies and have these questions printed out for all to read? Why not have Bob Barr or Ralph Nader ask these questions on National TV? Anyway, here are my questions. What are yours? What are THE BEST questions?

Babble babble...

MC CAIN--

1) Senator McCain, during the Republican debates Ron Paul was given the opportunity to ask you a question about the Presidents' Working Group on finances. Your eyes glazed over and you gave an obviously obfuscated answer, leading viewers to believe you either did not know what the Working Group was, or you were reluctant to talk nationally about what they were. Which was it, sir? If you were ignorant, are you better informed now? If so, can you explain what the group is and how it functions, as well as your opinion on whether it is beneficial to the American people as a whole or just an elite few? If you were reluctant to talk about this group on national television, would you do so now? If not, would you explain why not? Please, no more names of financial "experts" you would surround yourself with. Will you actually answer Ron Paul's question?
2) You are known for having a sense of humor. I am also known for having a sense of humor. Your idea of humor was to sing "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran," to a Beachboys' classic tune. I didn't find it at all funny. Do you think making jokes about dropping explosive devices on other people, possibly killing and maiming large numbers, maybe even accidentally killing innocent men, women and children is FUNNY? Please answer the question, sir. Is killing funny to you?
3)You made the statement during a Republican debate that "Washington changed us". Ron Paul stated that he did not think Washington changed him. My question is two part-- Do you think Washington changed Ron Paul in the manner you think it changed what you referred to as "us"? Secondly, since you came to Washington, why did you let it change you and how does this jive with your claim to be a man of principle? Did you come to Washington with no principles?
4) Remaining on the subject of change, I noticed that you changed your religious affiliation this year. Call me cynical, but it seems remarkably convenient and political in nature. Would you admit or deny that you became a Baptist to align yourself with a larger voting block? I am very interested in knowing the reason for the abrupt change in affiliation. Are you looking for votes, sir?
5) During the Republican debates, Ron Paul was notably and unfairly barred from a debate just before the New Hampshire primaries. No one can deny that he was doing better than at least two other candidates who were included, and the nature of the exclusion was obviously political and extremely unfair. As a Republican who supported Ron Paul and his run for president, I was unfairly treated in the political process by the process itself. While there may have not been anything illegal about the snubbing of Ron Paul, it certainly raises stark issues about election fairness and the democratic process. In one now reasonably well viewed piece of footage, you can be heard mocking Ron Paul for being excluded, reminding me of a child in a playground. You claim to be a man of principle, and yet you did not stand up for the democratic principle when this snubbing occurred. In fact you mocked it, sir. Can you tell me why anyone should vote for you, given the fact that you treated the process with such contempt? It was OK for you to alienate me and my vote, and last time I checked, I was an American. Do you think, perhaps, you behaved as badly as I think you behaved?
6)In a recent speech you gave about foreign policy, you stated that America needs to talk to her allies and the world at large, and listen to them even if they disagree with us, suggesting a man who would listen to majority consensus and act upon it. In other words, you implied that America would not follow GW Bush's policy of arrogance and would listen and bend to the sentiments of other nations. If that is true, then why will you not bend and listen to the will of the American people, who you have opposed for years now in regards to Iraq? Are you suggesting that, as president, you will listen to other nations and ignore your own constituency? Are you really that confused, sir, as to who you are applying to for the job of president?
7) I noticed that you are touting an energy independence policy. During this discussion, you mention that we need more nuclear power plants and used, as evidence of the correctness of your thinking, France as an example. You stated, as if it were a good thing, that France was 80% nuclear powered as a nation. My question then, becomes about Iran. They claim to be attempting to create their own nuclear power industry, in order to power their country. The taunting and ranting of Ahmadenijad notwithstanding (after all, it was you, sir, who sang bomb bomb bomb Iran) why is it any of our business if Iran develops nuclear power in an open and non secretive way? You support it as a solution to carbon emissions for us but not Iran? Is this not both hypocritical and an arrogant stance?

OBAMA--
1) Barack Obama. Your plan for the economy seems to be much of what we've been getting, only, if you'll pardon the pun, a slightly different shade. More programs. More governmental intrusions. More wealth redistribution using the coercive tactics of the federal legal juggernaut. The US is 50 % Conservative, meaning, in theory, half the population does not want your interference and would like you to stop. How are you going to convince those unconvinced, that you know better than they do how to spend their money? Are you willing to throw them all in jail if they decide to revolt, say, by refusing to pay taxes? Telling someone it is his or her duty to go along with your programs is not a solution or an answer. Are you prepared to arrest those who disagree with you and actively and financially protest?
2)I've heard of many programs you are wanting to implement if elected president, but I haven't heard of which programs you want to get rid of. How about humoring me and listing the programs that are now federal but that were once state run, that you would be willing to remove completely from the federal government. You talk of change. The federal government growing has been the biggest constant in federal government. How much will you change this? Or will you keep the growth rate of the federal government unchanged?
3) I've heard you mention that you would consider taxing big oil profits because they made too much profit, and I've heard you say that you would like to regulate them more so they make less profit. Since big oil has a monopoly on the delivery of auto and jet fuel in this country, I must say, I am not averse to checking into their procedures and investigating price fixing and gouging. But I have never heard you list the falling price of the dollar as one of the prime reasons gas is so expensive. If our dollar is halved in value, foreign oil will double in value, generally speaking. Why should we trust you on the economy when this simple fact seems to miss your boat? What then, will you say is the cause of the devaluation of the dollar?
4) I was told you were a Constitutional law expert. I may have misheard this, but assuming that I have not, would you please explain why the IRS is allowed to have a "guilty until proven innocent" policy? How do you balance Constitutional rights such as the right to privacy with the 16th amendment? Would you tell me what you think are the pitfalls-- Constitutionally-- with the way in which taxes are levied and collected in this country? Is there a law that requires all Americans to file and pay a tax on their income? If so, can you produce it?
5)As a practicing Christian, do you have any evidence that anything within the bible is true? Do you take the bible "on faith", meaning you do not require evidence before believing in the validity of a statement? If so, why should we vote for you? Evidence is the foundation of reason, and are we not trying to fulfill the highest office in the land with a reasonable man who will weigh the evidence before making any decision? If your beliefs in fundamental questions are not vetted using evidence and logic, why should we assume your presidency will be?


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"Preaching on public

"Preaching on public property is against federal code according to the judge who convicted him..."

Once again, so what is the problem here? Where is it written that humans have a right to bother other humans? The man was given a public place to preach, and those who wish to listen, may go and listen.

Sounds rational and peaceful and fair to me...

Scott from Oregon Posted by Scott from Oregon on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 18:06
"Can't you see that your

"Can't you see that your constant anti-theistic drum beating is every bit as annoying to some of us as those street corner preachers, you are so quick to condemn, are to you?"

It may be annoying, sure. If I were deluded, and someone kept knocking on my head to wake me up, I would become annoyed... absolutely.

But here is the difference. You are choosing to read my annoying scribbles. Many are choosing to attempt to argue against them. This is all done with some level of civility in a forum where it is agreed by all that ideas are respectfully debated. This, by agreement so far as I am aware, is a "free speech zone". A privately owned one, to be sure, with rules (and as we have seen, biases...)

But a public place, especially a landmark maintained by the state or federal government, is not an agreed upon "free speech" zone. IF I stood there and demanded that all Americans wake up from their fantasies, I would be annoying people and they, in turn, would have all the right in the world to ask me to shut up. If I did not, they would have the right to complain to a "keeper of the peace". If I still insisted that I had the right to bother people, well, those "peace keepers" need to put me somewhere where I will stop bothering people.

What if some Athiest stood on the public sidewalks next to a cemetary with a bullhorn and shouted factual information about death to funerals in progress?

"Stop fantasizing about your grandma going to heaven! There is no heaven! Your grandma doesn't have a soul! She was nothing but a projection of mind on a brain of matter! Now that her brain is dead there is no more projector so the projection is also no more! That preacher is lying to you again. Don't let him lie to you!"

And so on and so forth.

Doesn't matter what you believe, you have no right to bother other people...

Scott from Oregon Posted by Scott from Oregon on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 18:02
Scott, for a moment I

Scott, for a moment I thought you were able to overcome your predominating anti-theistic substrate long enough to make some real sense and I was just about to jump on your bandwagon, but alas, once again, you have allowed your tunnel vision to rule your thoughts in the end.

Can't you see that your constant anti-theistic drum beating is every bit as annoying to some of us as those street corner preachers, you are so quick to condemn, are to you?

From this point on, I will simply try to ignore all those generally nescient comments.

Posted by Nick (not verified) on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 10:55
Hi Scott

You have inspired me to seek out opportunities to put political candidates on the spot. Don't know if I will be successful, but here's what I would ask the presidential candidates if I got the opportunity:

I would ask Mc Cain if the Republican party still supports reducing the size and scope of government; If not, why have they changed their position, if so, how do they plan to go reducing the size of the federal government?

I would also outline the problem of the federal reserve causing inflation by printing extra money, and I would ask him if he plans to put a stop to that.

I would get him to point out what he feels are the dangers of universal healthcare, and ask him from where we will get the money to pay for Social Security and Medicare.

I don't think we can trust Iran not to apply their nuclear capabilities and materials to making nuclear weapons, and I do have a problem with Iran having nuclear weapons, so I would be interested to hear what Mc Cain would say in response to those questions.

I like your bible question to Obama, in spite of the fact that it would alienate a lot of potentially sympathetic people from your position. I would say though, in the interest of getting at the truth, go ahead and ask anyway. I would also ask him if he thinks his pastor's history of dealing with discrimination excuses his racist comments, and whether he believes that certain groups need special protection from discrimination.

I would ask Obama why he thinks universal healthcare is a good idea, given that the system in Canada is falling apart, and what he thinks will be the effects of yet another entitlement program on our sense of individual responsibility and independence.

I would also tell him that I have an employee that I will have to lay off if my income taxes go back up, and ask him if he will help her and all the other newly unemployed people find jobs when he raise our taxes.

Claire

Claire Posted by Claire on Sun, 06/15/2008 - 23:28
Free speech is dead

And since all these people that you want to question are on PRIVATE properties; or public for that matter, by the wonderful laws that now exist both online and off, you will have to wait your turn in A FREE SPEECH ZONE with all the other slaves 2 miles from where the action is..

And why is this so now in our country. Because some people dont like what others have to say, and will do anything; even slander, and defamation of character, to shut them up.

http://www.repentamerica.com/pressreleases/libertytrial.html

Like a comment here at BTM, there are many today who want certain people killed, or to die, because of what they are saying.

Isnt it supposed to go the other way. " i might not agree with what you say, but will defend that right to the death"

To the death you see. It seems to me they where willing to KILL or DIE so that others might have the right to voice.

There are certain entities that have just raised this whole war to another level in the world.

From now on no holds bar!!

Its going to get ugly..

http://www.infowars.com/?p=2683

rea1001.blogspot.com Posted by rea1001.blogspot.com on Sun, 06/15/2008 - 21:45
Dude, WHAT ABOUT THE RIGHTS

Dude, WHAT ABOUT THE RIGHTS of everybody else NOT TO HAVE TO LISTEN to a bunch of nutjobs spewing nonsense on the sidewalks while they are in line to see a national attraction?

You may have a right to say and think what you please, but you DO NOT have a right to harass people, irritate people, take over the nice atmospherics of a fine day with stupid shit that means nothing to those not predisposed to adopting silly notions to begin with...

What kind of a nut stands around telling people about an invisible omnipotent skyman to begin with? THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO BOTHER OTHER PEOPLE. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

Scott from Oregon Posted by Scott from Oregon on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 03:18
So which is it then?

"America!! It's a grand place for all of this diversity and free-speechifying and ego-centric politicizing..."

America, or Nazi Germany?

rea1001.blogspot.com Posted by rea1001.blogspot.com on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 04:33
Dude, you have a right to

Dude, you have a right to speak as freely as you want, you just don't have a right to bother people. It is that simple. (And to be clear, I am talking about the link you posted about the guy arrested for not complying with common social decencies and repeated requests by the police...) He was bothering people who had a right to not be bothered, especially by someone peddling faith.

People have a right to not be verbally assaulted while they stand in line to view something. My guess is that this person does not comply wth common decency nor desists when asked to by the very people he is bothering.

If someone assaults my peace of mind, do I have a right to assault their person if they don't desist? I am a big dude and I can usually get people to leave me alone... Is it not better for me to get a third nuetral party, the police, to intervene? Isn't that the civil agreement we make amongsts ourselves?

You decide...

Scott from Oregon Posted by Scott from Oregon on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 06:12
Free Speech

He had every right to be on public property doing what he was doing.

What bothers people is subjective. Millions of people will be both bothered and not bothered by a wide variety of subjects.

Much like you have no bothered me, because you are now taking the same line that the current administration has.

Refusing to give up your rights to a police officer is not against the law, its expected of a patriot!

He has broken the law by violating his Oath.

He was not peddling anything.

He is on public space, it does not matter if there is a line waiting there or not. Should he be sent the the frees speech zones, is that where he should go. Which is un constitutional.

What good is free speech, if you are not allowed to speak where people are; again, speaking to yourself inside an empy closet is not what the Founders had in mind,that was not the point of town squares where people would meet to speak and listen about many things. And just 100 years ago, yes, there where many preachers.

Im agnostic; if you are wondering, but KNOW this was how America used to be.(you know, I had great grand parents.)Most people where mature enough to move on; much like changing the radio station, and not raise a big huff about it, nor try to mute the person speaking.

And this is how the Government has been taking our rights, and will eventually take the First Amendment. By making it seem lawful, and ok, to mute people whom we do not agree with, or find aggravating.

The Founding Fathers wanted this aspect around, for debate was a good thing to them. And Im sure everyone is smart enough to understand that open debate will be aggravating to some.

So again, you rejoiced in this, even first exclaiming "America!", so why then do you rebut long established History in our country?

Why do you side with those who dont want this History to continue here in the " Land of the Free "

You see?

Think about it. During the Civil Rights Marches, how many white fold where REALLY PISSED to see all the black folk on the side walks every moring.

Having to read all the signs while walking or driving to work. Having to hear them as THEY SPOKE on those sidewalks none the less.

I bet for many it was HIGHLY IRRITATING wasnt it????

However, if it was not for those brave African Americans I would not have that president to quote here and now, in defense again of the First Amendment.

And remember, at that time, speaking out for an African American was against the law. So they defyed the law, to gain equal rights with the white Americans.

You will not; nor anyone else, to the same thing by segregating the people that you dont want to hear away from yourself.

It will not be allowed to go that far in the this Country. When the first is attacked, then the Second comes out is the way our Founding Fathers believed it, or any rights for that matter that where under attack.

We will defend the Republic, no matter what it takes.

Liberty or Death

rea1001.blogspot.com Posted by rea1001.blogspot.com on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 20:57
You make stupendous points

You make stupendous points and I follow your logic. What good is free speech if you cannot shout at crowds?

Good question. What good is the right to tranquility and happiness if people are always shouting nonsense at you?

There is a respectable balance to be had, here.

As for the civil rights movement, one could argue that ones rights were worth the affrontery, but ones religious belief, or disbeleif, were not.

In other words, one was standing up for equal and qualitatively MORE rights.

While the religious nut was INFRINGING on the rights of people by disturbing their right to peace and tranquility and the pursuit of happiness...

Scott from Oregon Posted by Scott from Oregon on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 22:18
Duality of present

I think Captain May puts it very clearly. There is a continuing Constitutional Crisis is this Country, the last thing we need is more people subverting it.

And you still have not stated any factual proof as to why this person should have been, and was arrested.

"Because it was irritating" will not fly in any JUST American court system, and you should know that.

rea1001.blogspot.com Posted by rea1001.blogspot.com on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 01:18
Except one thing...

Is it not better for me to get a third nuetral party, the police, to intervene? Isn't that the civil agreement we make amongsts ourselves?

Scott, you would have every right to seek out the intervention of a third-party neutral. In fact, that would be highly encouraged... if it was to restrict the actions of someone who was breaking a law. You might not agree with what is going on, but it should still be illegal...

But, in doing so (in the case of this website about the preacher t the Liberty Bell), you would be asking for a third-party "neutral" to violate the Constitutionally protected civil liberties of a man. I don't know the case specifically, but I am going to take the words of the article at face value in belief that it explained the situation fairly... This man was arrested for preaching on public property and found "guilty" in federal code. Did you get that? Preaching on public property is against federal code according to the judge who convicted him...

This is not private property and there are no signs located anywhere around the Liberty Bell that state "All preaching is restricted to 'free-speech' zones and is a federal offense". If the city and police have a problem with this man's actions, then they should redefine what is and isn't public property (oh yeah, they would have to amend the US Constitution too) -- 'free-speech zones' are the exact antithesis of what freedom of speech, as guaranteed by our US Constitution, is really all about.

I get what you are saying about not wanting to hear this man's rhetoric. As I've stated before on other threads, I value the privacy of my own spirituality, and I can't stand hearing bible thumpers telling me I'm going to hell when they know nothing about me, but I absolutely respect their right to say it 100%. Another example -- I abhor a flag burning (former military and all), and I hold the symbolism of the US flag very close to my heart... but I absolutely respect someone's right to burn it 100%.

Posted by DeltaRho2K on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 12:34
Voluntary

Action by you commenting. You know that bumper sticker on the care in front you that you really hate, one day go rip it off the car of the person.... :)

What your saying is that since you dont want to hear us 'nutjobs' speak, it is your right then to have me remain silent.

This is not about subjects, but the principle, it does not matter where they start with the subject, but the principle of the matter.

I know, I know, its a private website.

What about the disabled?

What if there only means of public interaction and articulation is the Web, is social groups?

People that cannot get out to 'normal' places?

Your response is purely emotional anyway and baseless. Bah.

rea1001.blogspot.com Posted by rea1001.blogspot.com on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 04:30
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