The Incredible Edible DNA

Posted by Christopher on Sun, 04/19/2009 - 12:38pm in

Is there really evidence for evolution in DNA? Modern textbooks claim that scientists have evidence of evolution from molecular biology. Bio means 'life', and ology means 'the study of'... so evolutionsts claim they have evidence for their theory from the study of life on a molecular level.

A molecule is extremely tiny. To put it in perspective, if you have a single grain of salt and you expand it to the size of a 1200x1200x1200 ft cube area of space, the molecules contained in that grain of salt will become the size of the original grain of salt. To put it a different way, 10 cubic centimeters of air would contain 300 million billion molecules, or 3 with 20 zeros after it.
(300,000,000,000,000,000,000)

A 1998 high school science textbook said, "The greater the percentage of DNA sequence, the more they have in common. Darwin speculated that all forms of life are related through decent with modification from earlier organisms. This speculation has been verified." This is saying that the DNA sequence is evidence for evolution. It's also saying that Darwin made a complete guess, and now they've verified his guess.

How verified is Darwin' guess?

DNA was co-discovered by Francis Crick in 1953. DNA is, as far as man's limited understanding, the most complex molecule in the known universe. Many major public school and college textbooks claim DNA is evidence for evolution. This could not be further from the truth, so let's take a look at the DNA and get a better understanding of the complexity involved.

Your body contains, on average, about 30 trillion cells that are invisible to the naked eye. (the only human cell that can be seen without visual aid is the female egg) These tiny cells each contain a nucleus, similar to a yellow yolk inside an egg. Inside that nucleus is the code to create a human being, which we call DNA. (deoxyribonucleic acid) That DNA is made up of chromosomes. The average human cell contains 46 chromosomes. (with the exception of gametes, which only contain 23; these are cells used for reproduction)

Each DNA contains the information to create a new person. So if you had one set of my chromosomes, you could theoretically recreate a new Christopher from that information.

These chromosomes are also extremely small. If you took one set of chromosomes from each of the 6 billion people on the planet, meaning you would have all the information you need to recreate everyone on the planet, all those chromosomes would only fill up an asprin tablet.

Keep in mind, however, just because it's small, does not mean it's simple. Though I've heard some evolutionists give credit to the complexity of the DNA, in my experience, I have listened to most of them grossly over-simplify the complexity of this DNA code.

The DNA is like a ladder that is twisted up. So when someone refers to your genes, they're referring to groups of these rungs in the ladder, which are made up half from your father, and half from your mother. That's where you get into dominate and recessive traits from your genes.

The DNA ends up forming what is called a double helix. If you take a rubber band and start twisting it, you'll get rungs like a ladder. If you keep twisting it, eventually it will begin to knot together. A helix is a spiral. A double helix is a spiral of the spiral, which is what a rubber band will do after it gets twisted up enough.

DNA will unwind itself from this double helix inside a microscopic compact space, split to make a duplicate, then rewind itself... creating a brand new cell.

A single cell in your body is FAR more complex than a space shuttle. When a baby is conceived, it will produce about 15,000 new cells per minute. Could you imagine having to work at a factory that produces 15,000 space shuttles per minute? We are no where near a point of understanding when it comes to the complexity of the cell, and the DNA molecule.

Bill Gates said, "DNA is like a software program, but it's much more complex than anything we've been able to design."

The DNA molecule contains enough coded information to fill up the Grand Canyon with books... 40 times over! I am not aware of any computer storage system on the planet that could hold that much information. It's been estimated that the DNA code is more complex and stores more information than all computer programs written by man combined. And that's only with our current understanding.

Take a look at this short clip from Unlocking the Mystery of Life.

How someone can believe a complex machanism, such as DNA, that many scientists are still working to understand, can arise by random chance is anyone's guess.

"I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made."
-Psalm 139:14

The scientist interviewed is Dr. Dean Kenyon, who was previously an evolutionist that became a creationist after facing some fundamental problems with the theory upon investigation of the molecular level of biology. He was a very well known evolutionist that wrote many books on evolution, and then he wrote a book that supported creation called "Of Pandas and People." He was removed as a teacher, but not fired only because he had a tenure. He was made a lab assistant (basically washing test tubes; things normally reserved for first year students). He had to sue to get his job back. That's what you get for daring to question the holy sacred cow of evolution.

Dr. Kenyon is aware that most evolutionists, in a feeble attempt to use DNA as evidence for evolution, have ridiculously over-simplified the DNA code.

The human genome project, which many people have heard of, but cannot explain, is a 13-year project in which scientists claim they decoded the human DNA. That is extremely deceitful. If there is complete decoding of the DNA, I'd like to see it. What they've actually done is taking very large sets of code in a set of a few genes, and put them into columns with labels.

These labels are A, C, G, and T. These letters stand for four nucleic acid bases. As you can see, it creates a long list of letters: AGTCAGAGTC, etc. The A stands for Adenine and pairs with the T, which stands for Thymine. The C stands for Cytosine and pairs with the G, Guanine. These are called basepairs.

To put these into perspective of size, the average DNA contains about 3 billion basepairs. These 3 billion basepairs are divided into 23 chromosomes. If you stretched out just one DNA, it would be about one meter long. If you stretched out all the DNA in your 30 trillion cells connected together, They would stretch to the moon and back... 5 million round trips! All this DNA connected together could fit in about 2 tablespoons.

So the evolutionists will look at these base pairs and say, for example, that column #9 has an ACTG. Then they'll line up a chimpanzee chromosome next to it, compare column #9 and find it also contains ACTG. They line up the two, compare them both, and find a 98% similarity between chimps and man for their DNA sequence. They claim this is evidence of a common ancestor.


Let's compare William Shakesphere's Romeo and Juliet with Hamlet. Let's say we find out how many times the letter 'E' is used in both stories. We conclude that there is a 98% similarity in amount of times the letter 'E' is used. Does that prove Romeo and Juliet evolved into Hamlet over millions of years? Does that prove that Romeo and Juliet and Hamlet both evolved from morse code over billions of years? Or... could it prove that the same author wrote both stories with a common language?

Today, molecular biologists know that only 3% of the genes are expressed through physical properties of organisms like chimps and man. The other 97% is instructional code, which tells genes how to perform a wide variety of functions. The 98.4% commonality between chimps and man involve things like eyes, teeth, skin, hair, etc. The 1.6% difference is the big problem.

Dr. Barney Maddox, one of the leading genome researchers in the world, discovered that the 1.6% difference consists of 48 million nucleotides. He also discovered that if you change just 3 of the 48 million, the creature will die. This completely kills the theory that one creature can evolve into another, when anything outside of small variety changes is 99.9999999% fatal.
(See Human Genome Project: Quantitive Disproof of Evolution by Barney T. Maddox, M.D., 1992)

You can find similarity in many things if you look in the right places for it. Clouds are 100% water. Watermelons are 97% water. Does that prove watermelons evolved into clouds? Snowcones and Jellyfish are 98% water. Does that prove they're a missing link between watermelons and clouds?

This is the very same argument the evolutionists use when they descibe similarities in structures. For example, they say that many creatures (like aligators, birds, and humans) have similar forelimb structures. That birds have a radius and an ulna, and so do humans. This is what's used as evidence for evolution.

This is extremely deceitful to claim because first of all, a man named Carolus Linnaeus (who is a creationist and is called the "Father of Taxonomy") came along and named similar parts of the body. They're operating under Linnaeus's system, which simply names structures with similar functions for the purpose of classification, but then twists it around in attempt to use that as evidence for evolution.

Commanlities in structures prove a common design engineer, not a common ancestor. A Buick and a Cadillac might be similar. They both have a windsheild, four wheels, and a radiator. Does that prove they both evolved from a golf cart over millions of years?

Both vehicles might even have some interchangable parts. For example, the lugnuts from a Buick might fit on a Cadillac. Does that prove they both evolved from a skateboard over billions of years? Or... does it prove that both Buick and Cadillac come from the same designer, GM?

Changes in anything (cars, buildings, animals) only come when the design engineer steps in and reconstructes a different model. That is called common sense. In order to accept macro-evolution, people have to first reject common sense.

"Similar structures nearly always have similar plans (DNA in this case). Similar bridges have similar blueprints. This hardly constitutes evidence that one sired the other or that they were erected by tornadoes."
-Tom Willis, Lucy Remains at College

"Even with DNA sequence data, we have no direct access to the process of evolution, so objective reconstruction of the vanished past can be achieved only by creative imagination."
-N. Takahata, A Genetic Perspective on the Origin & History of Humans, Annual Review of Ecology & Systems Aties, 1995

I don't believe there are aliens (God created this universe just for us), but let's say an alien visited planet earth. He hovered over New York City, and saw there were four types of vehicles: Buses, Cars, Motorcycles, and Trucks. So the alien labels them B, C, M, and T. He writes down the pattern of these vehicles as he finds them laid out in traffic. Then he hovers over to Los Angeles. He records the pattern of vehicles in that city as well. When he lays out both patterns together, he finds a 99% similarity in the pattern of traffic.

1) Does that prove that New York City evolved from Los Angeles? Anybody with half a brain would see the absurdity in that.

2) Does the patterns of BCTMCTBMCB, etc... explain how an internal combustion engine works? Does it explain how a differential works? How about the city's electrical or sewer system?

The evolutionists have taken great genetic research, and simply tried to deceitfully apply their evolutionary paradigm into the things we observe. They've taken huge complex blocks of genetic code, and labeled them with a single letter, something our human brains can handle, and then they turn around and claim they've "decoded" human DNA? I want to see it. Not their simplified blocks of information... I want to see this actual decoded DNA. But as I stated before, we don't even have a system on this planet that could store that massive amount of code.

I have read an estimated chance of a DNA arising on its own from purely natural processes. It was 10 to the 119,000th power to 1, that it would ever happen. Let me put that into perspective. The evolutionists, based on their Big Bang estimates, which is a completely bogus theory (See The Big Dud Theory for more details), suggests that our visible known universe is 15-20 billion light years across. If I were to convert that distance to inches, our visible known universe would be 10 to the 28th power in inches alone. 10 to the 29th power would be 10 times out visible known universe.

I'll say it again for emphasis, that it would 10 to the 119,000th power to 1 that life could arise by chance on its own. Even with these impossible odds, you have to consider the further infinately impossible odds that this life could survive in the given atmosphere proposed (hoped, wished, prayed for) by the evolutionists.

The Failed Attempt to Create Life

In the 1950s, two scientists attempted to simulate how life may have origininated, according to the evolution theory. It's called the Miller-Urey Experiment.

"In the early 1950s, Urey turned his attention to the studies of geochemistry, astrophysics, and the origin of life. He wanted to know how the earth and the solar system had come to be... He studied the chemical reactions of gases that existed in Earth's primitive atmosphere, and he was the first to show that amino acids could have formed in the atmosphere. Although he never proved how life originated, he did add evidence to the theory that life could have started by itself on the primitive earth." H.B.J. Science, 1989, p. 357 (bold added for emphasis)

This experiment has been duplicated many times, and not only failed miserably (meaning they didn't come anywhere close to making life), but they also created many more problems for evolution. Let's take a look at the experiment and go over some important details:

The chemicals used in this experiment were water (H20), methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3), and hydrogen (H2). Though many reasons are given for the usage of these basic chemicals, the real primary reason is because that's the chemicals they NEEDED to make this experiment work. Therefore, it is an ASSUMPTION that these were the primary chemicals involved, but no one has a clue.

Above, you'll see he inserted these chemicals to circulate through some glass tubes. These tubes ran through an electric spark chamber that was supposed to simulate lightning. It would eventually produce a goo-like substance at the bottom.

This goo was claimed to be "Rich in amino acids," -HBJ Science, 1989, Figure 12-15 -- This is simply not true.

He then had to drain the goo off because if it went through the spark again, the 'lightning' would destroy what he'd just made. So he made a trap to keep the goo from going back into the mixture.

Take a moment to note how very fictitious this experiment has become. A natural 'soup-like' mixture would not have a special trap to keep it from the rest of oceans on the so-called 'primitive earth'.

The experiment ended up yielding a substance that was 85% tar, 13% carboxylic acid (both of those are are poisonous to life), and 2% amino acids. This chemical mixture is about 98% toxic to the amino acids that formed. That really puts a damper in the odds of survival.

A proper ordered group of amino acids is the building blocks of your protiens. We have 26 letters in our english alphabet, and with those letters, we can make many words. The smallest protiens have 70-100 amino acids, but they all must appear in the correct order. Urey was no where close to creating life with this experiment.

Notice particularly, oxygen was excluded. (aka a Reducing Atmosphere, which is an oxygen-free atmosphere) It's a well known fact that life requires oxygen to function and survive. Also, in a natural environment, ozone is made from oxygen, and without that you don't have any thing to block UV light, and the UV radiation will destroy ammonia, which is one of the chemicals Urey required to start with.

"In general, we find no evidence in the sedimentary destribution of carbon, sulfur, uranium, or iron, that an oxygen-free atmosphere has existed at any time during the span of geological history recorded in well preserved sedimentary rocks." - Erich Dimroth and Michael M Kimberley, "Precambrian Atmospheric Oxygen" Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences, Vol 13, No. 9, Sept, 1976, p 1161

So you can't get life to evolved without oxygen.

However, in the experiments, if oxygen was added, they couldn't get any molecules to form, therefore, it had to be excluded to even begin the experiment. Just as an apple with brown in the open air, or a car will rust, the 'life' Urey was trying to create would oxidize.

So you can't get life to evolve with oxygen.

If you can't get life to evolve with oxygen, and you can't get life to evolve without oxygen, it looks like you can't get life to evolve.

"Both the origin of life and the origin of the major groups of animals remains unknown." -Alfred G Fisher, evolutionist, Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia, 1998

The only thing these experiments have accomplished is creating more impossible odds for evolution to overcome. Overall, the complexity of the origin of life is more logically explain via the Creator, and DNA clearly shows His amazing ability.

I remember sitting in on a seminar of Dr. David Menton, a retired professor of anatomy at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, PhD in cell biology, who said, "I spent decades in research on the human body. I just got to a point as I retired that I was beginning to appreciate the massive complexity of the human body. And then I have people come along and try to tell me that it arose by random chance? That is an insult to my intelligence."

There must be an awfully strong effort to avoid the judgement of God to try and use religious voodoo, like evolution, to explain away the logical obvious. If you see a painting hanging on a tree in the middle of the forest, is your first conclusion that it evolved from the tree over millions of years? Or do you look around for the painter? And as we see complexity and order do not arise by random chance, therefore it is most logical to conclude there is a Designer to the design.

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"
-Romans 1:28

As a final thought, I often hear the evolutionist refer to creationists believing in Santa Claus. I find it so hilarious that they use this example because of course, any adult knows that it's ridiculous to think that gifts will appear under a tree on their own by some mysterious magical process. We all know that the parents are the ones behind the scenes, doing things BY DESIGN.

It is the evolutionists that like to believe their mysterious magical process can create something from nothing. They're doing their best to stay up late, hoping they will see the mysterious magical process.

I honestly try to take them seriously in every matter of debate, but as I study more (especially in the area of molecular biology and the DNA), it's getting harder to do so.

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Q&A:
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***Do you think it is possible for scientists to create life in the laboratory?

I don't know. The only thing I can say for certain is this: Life cannot arise by itself. It requires an intelligent design to initiate. So outside of a laboratory, in a real world situation, life cannot create itself.
However, if a group of intelligent scientists get together and create life in the laboratory, it would not prove evolution. The only thing it would prove, is that it take intelligence to make life.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some Interesting Quotes (most of these are from evolutionsts):
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"The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable with the chance that 'a tornado sweeping through a junk yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein'."
-Sir Fred Hoyle (English astronomer, Professor of Astronomy at Cambridge University), as quoted in "Hoyle on Evolution". Nature, vol. 294, 12 Nov. 1981, p. 105

"We add that it would be all too easy to object that mutations have no evolutionary effect because they are eliminated by natural selection. Lethal mutations (the worst kind) are effectively eliminated, but others persist as alleles. ...Mutants are present within every population, from bacteria to man. There can be no doubt about it. But for the evolutionist, the essential lies elsewhere: in the fact that mutations do not coincide with evolution."
-Pierre-Paul Grassé (University of Paris and past-President, French Academie des Sciences) in Evolution of Living Organisms, Academic Press, New York, 1977, p. 88

"And in man is a three-pound brain which, as far as we know, is the most complex and orderly arrangement of matter in the universe."
-Dr. Isaac Asimov (biochemist; was a Professor at Boston University School of Medicine; internationally known author), "In the game of energy and thermodynamics you can't even break even.". Smithsonian Institute Journal, June 1970, p. 10

"Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are great con-men, and the story they are telling may be the greatest hoax ever. In explaining evolution, we do not have one iota of fact."
-Dr. T. N. Tahmisian (Atomic Energy Commission, USA) in "The Fresno Bee", August 20, 1959. As quoted by N. J. Mitchell, Evolution and the Emperor's New Clothes, Roydon Publications, UK, 1983, title page.

"The absence of fossil evidence for intermediary stages between major transitions in organic design, indeed our inability, even in our imagination, to construct functional intermediates in many cases, has been a persistent and nagging problem for gradualistic accounts of evolution."
-Stephen Jay Gould (Professor of Geology and Paleontology, Harvard University), "Is a new and general theory of evolution emerging?" Paleobiology, vol. 6(1), January 1980, p. 127

"Contrary to what most scientists write, the fossil record does not support the Darwinian theory of evolution because it is this theory (there are several) which we use to interpret the fossil record. By doing so we are guilty of circular reasoning if we then say the fossil record supports this theory."
-Ronald R. West, PhD (paleoecology and geology) (Assistant Professor of Paleobiology at Kansas State University), "Paleoecology and uniformitarianism". Compass, vol. 45, May 1968, p. 216

"I would rather believe in fairy tales than in such wild speculation. I have said for years that speculations about the origin of life lead to no useful purpose as even the simplest living system is far too complex to be understood in terms of the extremely primitive chemistry scientists have used in their attempts to explain the unexplainable. God cannot be explained away by such naive thoughts."
--Sir Ernst B. Chain, Nobel Laureate (Medicine, 1945), as quoted by Ronald W. Clark, The Life of Ernst Chain (London: Weidenfield & Nicolson, 1985), pp. 147-148.

"Question is: Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing, any one thing that is true? I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very prestigious body of evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said, 'I do know one thing - it ought not to be taught in high school.'"
-Dr. Colin Patterson (Senior Paleontologist, British Museum of Natural History, leading cladistic taxonomist), Keynote address at the American Museum of Natural History, New York City, November 5, 1981.



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NASA recently...

NASA recently confirmed the presence of water on the moon, or rather that there were ice particles on the moon. Already, people are wondering about moon water – or maybe establishing the first brewery in space. The idea of drinking moon water is really stupid. Let me explain something – because the moon has no atmosphere, that means it is constantly bombarded with every kind of radiation in space, gamma rays, X rays, you name it. So if someone were to harvest the water on the moon, bottle it or make it into beer or soda, and you were dumb enough to go to a money lender to buy some, as soon as you're done quenching your thirst you'd lose a kidney.

Harley V Posted by Harley V on Mon, 11/23/2009 - 11:02pm
The Failed Attempt to Create Life

So you really believe that it can't be done?

--
Don't Think, Act!
Don't Question, Follow!

And don't bother telling an enraged lynch mob with a raging bloodlust, the truth.

TranceAm Posted by TranceAm on Fri, 08/07/2009 - 6:41pm
So you really believe that

So you really believe that it can't be done?

Would you point out where I stated my beliefs about whether or not it can be done? If you can't, I'm going to have to call you out on not reading what was written. Not to mention, based on previous comments I've seen you make, I highly doubt you're even asking looking for an answer.

CreationLiberty.org
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." - Henry David Thoreau

Christopher Posted by Christopher on Fri, 08/07/2009 - 8:50pm
By posting the article

You seem to claim something.. Or have an article supporting a claim.

Hence the conclusion of the article and its subject.

"Can't Get Life to Evolve" + F"ailed Attempt to Create Life"

(Yes or No?)

I do hope you stand at least with/for the articles you post.

So again, the question, and I am really looking for an answer from you.

So you really believe it can't be done?

A straight standing man answer like Yes or No will do.
No wiggling to avoid answering please. Just pretend to be that heroic one that strikes at the root of evil like your signature claims...
(Unless you don't identify with the signature either.)

--
Don't Think, Act!
Don't Question, Follow!

And don't bother telling an enraged lynch mob with a raging bloodlust, the truth.

TranceAm Posted by TranceAm on Fri, 08/07/2009 - 9:26pm
More waste of time

You seem to claim something.. Or have an article supporting a claim.

So you're assuming? Notice, you didn't ask me: "Do you think it is possible?" You asked: "You really believe they can't?" Anyone can see right though how that's worded.

Hence the conclusion of the article and its subject. "Can't Get Life to Evolve" + F"ailed Attempt to Create Life"

I'm really having a hard time understanding why the atheists I keep running into on here are having a hard time reading things in context. The context was the Miller/Urey experiment. Hence: Can't get life to evolve + Failed attempt to create life. This is not that complex. But I can lay the science right out in front of the "evos", and they refer it to my opinion.

(Yes or No?)

Yes or no what?

I do hope you stand at least with/for the articles you post.

I posted information about the experiment. The information's solid that they came nowhere close to creating life, though I've heard evolutionists claim otherwise.

So again, the question, and I am really looking for an answer from you. So you really believe it can't be done?

I appreciate the willingness for an answer. However, you need to take your personal assumptions and bias out of the question. What I'm deducing that you're asking is: "Do you believe it is possible to create life in the laboratory?" My answer: I don't know, and I never stated my beliefs about whether it can or can't be done in the article (which I'm questioning if you actually read).
All I know is this: If a bunch of intelligent scientists get together and create life in the laboratory, that will be very hard evidence for creation because it takes intelligence to make life.

A straight standing man answer like Yes or No will do. No wiggling to avoid answering please. Just pretend to be that heroic one that strikes at the root of evil like your signature claims... (Unless you don't identify with the signature either.)

I guess you're asking me to lie? If I say yes or no... I would be lying to say that I believed one way or another that mankind can create life in the laboratory. Again... I don't know. Your question has a built in assumption to it, and you're trying to force an answer that I can't give. This has nothing to do with 'wiggling out' of anything, and everything to do with your willful bias and ignorance of what's in the article I presented that I'm almost sure now that you probably just skimmed.
This is a very similar strategy they will use in school systems when teaching evolution. They'll ask: "Do you think man is still evolving?" If I say yes, that means I believe evolution is happening. If I say no, that means I believe evolution happened... but the fact is that what I believe is seperate and outside of the parameters of the question.
Your question, "So you really believe it can't be done?", already has the built in assumption that I made any statement about my beliefs as to whether it can or cannot be done, which I did not.

This is why this is such a waste of my time. I have to sit here and explain to you what you're doing, without being able to discuss the science involved. So please get to your point.

___________________________________________________________________
CreationLiberty.org
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." - Henry David Thoreau

Christopher Posted by Christopher on Fri, 08/07/2009 - 11:12pm
"I posted information about

"I posted information about the experiment. The information's solid that they came nowhere close to creating life, though I've heard evolutionists claim otherwise."

"Can't Get Life to Evolve" + "Failed Attempt to Create Life"
So again the question: Do you think it can't be done?

Stop wiggling like a little baby girl.. Just answer the question.

And don't answer your "own" postulated question (strawman.) as surrogate.
("Do you believe it is possible to create life in the laboratory?" My answer: I don't know, )
(A laboratory is only a controlled environment, and has a subjective meaning for the word "controlled"...)

--
Don't Think, Act!
Don't Question, Follow!

And don't bother telling an enraged lynch mob with a raging bloodlust, the truth.

TranceAm Posted by TranceAm on Sat, 08/08/2009 - 7:05am
Last Time

Ok, now you've changed your question:

Do you think it can't be done?

My answer:

I don't know. I'm not smart enough to know if it's possible or not. But again, you're taking those two phrases ("Can't Get Life to Evolve" + "Failed Attempt to Create Life") out of context. I've already explained in my previous comments where those statements came from and why. The context was the Laboratory. I don't know if it's possible to create it in the laboratory or not.

I can say this: Life cannot arise on its own without an intelligence behind it. That's certain, and that's what all the scientific evidence has shown so far.

If you can't handle that... tough.

If you want to believe in evolution, great, go for it. If you want to believe some little girl's defect proves we all came from a rock 4.6 billion years ago, great, go for it. You can believe all the crazy and insane things you want, in order to reject the Creator. I don't care what you believe.

But the philosophy that teaches is the exact reason why this country's in the state it's in today.

If you're looking for a particular answer from me, you need to rephrase your question because I don't understand what information you're looking for. If you don't like it and don't want to rephrase the question so I can understand what you're asking... tough. I'm sure with some counseling, you'll deal with it.

____________________________________________________
CreationLiberty.org
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." - Henry David Thoreau

Christopher Posted by Christopher on Sat, 08/08/2009 - 2:25pm
No, I didn't change the question.

You did, and try to get away with answering your own question, besides enhancing the thread with some nice straw men.

So again:

The Failed Attempt to Create Life

So you really believe that it can't be done?

Yes or No

Edit.. I will leave it at CHECKMATE!
Everyone with a brain can read for themselves.

--
Don't Think, Act!
Don't Question, Follow!

And don't bother telling an enraged lynch mob with a raging bloodlust, the truth.

TranceAm Posted by TranceAm on Sat, 08/08/2009 - 2:53pm
Updated - Can't Get Life to Evolve

The Failed Attempt to Create Life

In the 1950s, two scientists attempted to simulate how life may have origininated, according to the evolution theory. It's called the Miller-Urey Experiment.

"In the early 1950s, Urey turned his attention to the studies of geochemistry, astrophysics, and the origin of life. He wanted to know how the earth and the solar system had come to be... He studied the chemical reactions of gases that existed in Earth's primitive atmosphere, and he was the first to show that amino acids could have formed in the atmosphere. Although he never proved how life originated, he did add evidence to the theory that life could have started by itself on the primitive earth." H.B.J. Science, 1989, p. 357 (bold added for emphasis)

This experiment has been duplicated many times, and not only failed miserably (meaning they didn't come anywhere close to making life), but they also created many more problems for evolution. Let's take a look at the experiment and go over some important details:

The chemicals used in this experiment were water (H20), methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3), and hydrogen (H2). Though many reasons are given for the usage of these basic chemicals, the real primary reason is because that's the chemicals they NEEDED to make this experiment work. Therefore, it is an ASSUMPTION that these were the primary chemicals involved, but no one has a clue.

Above, you'll see he inserted these chemicals to circulate through some glass tubes. These tubes ran through an electric spark chamber that was supposed to simulate lightning. It would eventually produce a goo-like substance at the bottom.

This goo was claimed to be "Rich in amino acids," -HBJ Science, 1989, Figure 12-15 -- This is simply not true.

He then had to drain the goo off because if it went through the spark again, the 'lightning' would destroy what he'd just made. So he made a trap to keep the goo from going back into the mixture.

Take a moment to note how very fictitious this experiment has become. A natural 'soup-like' mixture would not have a special trap to keep it from the rest of oceans on the so-called 'primitive earth'.

The experiment ended up yielding a substance that was 85% tar, 13% carboxylic acid (both of those are are poisonous to life), and 2% amino acids. This chemical mixture is about 98% toxic to the amino acids that formed. That really puts a damper in the odds of survival.

A proper ordered group of amino acids is the building blocks of your protiens. We have 26 letters in our english alphabet, and with those letters, we can make many words. The smallest protiens have 70-100 amino acids, but they all must appear in the correct order. Urey was no where close to creating life with this experiment.

Notice particularly, oxygen was excluded. (aka a Reducing Atmosphere, which is an oxygen-free atmosphere) It's a well known fact that life requires oxygen to function and survive. Also, in a natural environment, ozone is made from oxygen, and without that you don't have any thing to block UV light, and the UV radiation will destroy ammonia, which is one of the chemicals Urey required to start with.

"In general, we find no evidence in the sedimentary destribution of carbon, sulfur, uranium, or iron, that an oxygen-free atmosphere has existed at any time during the span of geological history recorded in well preserved sedimentary rocks." - Erich Dimroth and Michael M Kimberley, "Precambrian Atmospheric Oxygen" Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences, Vol 13, No. 9, Sept, 1976, p 1161

So you can't get life to evolved without oxygen.

However, in the experiments, if oxygen was added, they couldn't get any molecules to form, therefore, it had to be excluded to even begin the experiment. Just as an apple with brown in the open air, or a car will rust, the 'life' Urey was trying to create would oxidize.

So you can't get life to evolve with oxygen.

If you can't get life to evolve with oxygen, and you can't get life to evolve without oxygen, it looks like you can't get life to evolve.

"Both the origin of life and the origin of the major groups of animals remains unknown." -Alfred G Fisher, evolutionist, Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia, 1998

The only thing these experiments have accomplished is creating more impossible odds for evolution to overcome. Even if a bunch of intelligent scientists get together and create life in the laboratory, the only thing that will prove: It takes intelligence to make life.

Overall, the complexity of the origin of life is more logically explain via the Creator, and DNA clearly shows His amazing ability.

As a final thought, I often hear the evolutionist refer to creationists believing in Santa Claus. I find it so hilarious that they use this example because of course, any adult knows that it's ridiculous to think that gifts will appear under a tree on their own by some mysterious magical process. We all know that the parents are the ones behind the scenes, doing things BY DESIGN.

It is the evolutionists that like to believe their mysterious magical process can create something from nothing. I honestly try to take them seriously in every matter of debate, but as I study more (especially in the area of molecular biology and the DNA), it's getting harder to do so.

You can watch both Ben Stien's Expelled, and Unlocking the Mysteries of Life at: CreationLiberty.org

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2Tim 4:3-4

Christopher Posted by Christopher on Fri, 08/07/2009 - 6:23pm
I follow God's Word because

I follow God's Word because it's never been proven wrong.

Is it my turn to say "if it was proven wrong, you'd just deny it"?

You 'claim' that is it proven, but provide us with no specific examples as evidence.
What claim are you talking about?

If you want to BELIEVE they come from something that is non-dog, or can change into something that is non-dog,
What's a non-dog? A chihuahua who can't breed with a German Shepherd? A gray wolf?

So to claim that they've decoded the human DNA is ridiculous.
That's because you have a ridiculous idea of what "decoding" means. Decoding, in the honest scientific context is they know what sections of genes do, and what they don't do, such that we can play with the code and design, modify certain genomes (or parts of it).

What DOES hold, is that DNA follows EVERY LAW IN CHEMISTRY AND PHYSICS, this is not know by knowing DNA, it's been known and is still waiting to be disproven.

Evolution defies laws of chemistry and physics. I've never claimed DNA violates them.
Cite me one law that macroevolution has defied in chemistry and physics.
(Hint : 2nd law of thermodynamics is not one of them).
Big Dud is not evolution, abiogenesis is not evolution, listing anything outside of evolution will be ignored.

The complexity of the double helix found in the cell nuclei explains nothing on how it got there.
Evolution and DNA is not about how DNA or life started, it's about how DNA can account for diversity in species and instruct functions in living organism. English does not say how English started, and the Bible does not claim how the Bible was written (if it did, taking it seriously would be circular reasoning).

There are deeper complexities in the cell and DNA beyond our current understanding.
Agreed, none of which though, have, or are expected to violate chemistry, physics and known biology.

But don't call evolution science... it's not observable. Trying to pass this off a straw man doesn't provide evidence for your theory.
Evolution, or macroevolution is as scientific as we can get compared to atomic theory, cell theory and theory of gravity. Passing a straw man off as a straw man ONLY PROVES YOU HAVE NOT ASKED A SERIOUS QUESTION, why do you always think that when somebody is refuting, disproving or attacking you they're trying to help their own argument? You must think audience are stupid.

Every time you are corrected, attacked or criticized, you move the goalpost and say "but just because I'm wrong doesn't mean you're right" WE KNOW THAT, but just because you're wrong means you're wrong.

Just because we can see some of it now, doesn't mean there's not more underneath all that.
Who ever claimed otherwise? But who ever claimed that cells and DNA can violate chemistry and physics? Is that one of the "deeper things" you're hoping to see?

It's obvious you didn't read the whole article, you just took out things you didn't like and attempted to respond in a childish fashion.
I will not read the rest if I can already sniff out the obvious mistakes, misconceptions and problems in your claims, bad analogies going unnoticed cannot produce an honest scientific discourse.

A classic example of the evolutionists picking on the example, and missing the point.
Just the opposite, quite frankly.
Bad analogy that doesn't have a point, or a strawman making a point that it shouldn't. I am dismantling your bad analogy because it's not an honest representation or comparison, so the point DOES NOT deserve to be taken. If you actually understood DNA, you'd not make such poor explanations or analogies. Correcting you is not missing the point, well it is, it's missing the points that I don't need or want from a person who doesn't know what he's talking about.

The moment I tell you one thing I know, you spit the cliche "Yeah Josh, but that still doesn't prove more than that, such as this" "Yeah, but you still haven't told us this" "Yeah, but how do you know there's not more too it?" You are never satisfied until I say I agree with you, which goes to show how little you know about proof and goalposts, or you just don't like setting them (because you can't keep them).

Rather, it proves common design.
Why does that prove design? Any design, seriously. I'm not being difficult, I seriously want to know.
If that proves common design, can you tell me what DISPROVES COMMON DESIGN?
An honest scientist will know to ask.

IDers have been challenged to show ONE unique gene that's definitively designed, which cannot be explained by descent.

Cynical Posted by Cynical on Tue, 05/19/2009 - 6:49pm
Josh, this is so deceitful,

Josh, this is so deceitful, it's hard to believe. I'm sorry you paid to have someone teach you this stuff. You're welcome to go on as many rants as you want, but because you're refusing to give any information, I can't respond to you anymore because you're wasting my time.

I've got things to write, meetings to attend, and public speaking to do. I don't have the time to pour through snow jobs of information in hopes that one day you will present an explanation for basic questions about evolution. You're doing this, is obvious evidence of your liking this theory only because it justifies no God in your mind.

I'll go through a couple of things you said, only because they might have possibly related to giving some evidence, but you're using this 'self-defense mechanism' politicians do in order to avoid later being caught in a lie. Then you can say, "I never said that!" I could not think of the reason at first, because I forgot, but now I remember why I stopped talking to you.

Evolution and DNA is not about how DNA or life started, it's about how DNA can account for diversity in species and instruct functions in living organism.

This is MICRO-evolution (aka variation). Variations among the kinds is observable science. I don't disagree with this. But what you're trying to sneak in: Macro-evolution, and origin of life, and origin of stars and chemicals and time and space and matter and laws, etc. Others in your normal circles might fall for that, but it won't work on me. You claim that observable evidence for one thing is proof for something that isn't observable. That's ridiculous... and that's not science. Trying to keep things in micro-variation simply proves, first of all, what the Bible said 'they bring forth after their kind', and second, shows your limited thinking (since you're self-proclaimed atheist) of taking the lines of logic backwards to a beginning.

English does not say how English started, and the Bible does not claim how the Bible was written (if it did, taking it seriously would be circular reasoning).

And the complexities of language itself have always required an intelligence to start it up. Language doesn't arise on its own from grunts and groans. Language carries information, and must require a place to store that information (memory). Memory requires a complex device of information in order to operate. So which came first? The information, or that which stores the information? There's a serious chicken and egg problem here. For anyone else that wants more information on that, here's a quick comment in another thread where I covered that:
http://www.breakthematrix.com/content/The-Big-Dud-Theory#comment-27201

Evolution, or macroevolution is as scientific as we can get compared to atomic theory, cell theory and theory of gravity.

We've been over this before Josh, more than once. It's sometimes hard for me to believe that someone would want to be that deceitful, but I have to remember that you have no defining moral characteristics of what deceit is, so it makes sense that you would try to fool people with stuff like this.
Folks, he's trying to compare his religious idea of macro-evolution onto things that have been observed. For example, gravity can be observed. You can drop a pen. Gravity can be demonstrated. One kind of animal changing into a different kind of animal, has NEVER been observed. They'll try to argue the definition of kind (which is those that were originally able to bring forth at the beginning of creation). However, they don't talk about the lacking of any solid definition of species. A dog, wolf, and coyote are all considered different species, yet they can all bring forth. They interchangably use the word species quite often. Here's a biological definition:
the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species
I won't break it down right now, because I don't have the time, but if anyone wants to break that down, look up the definitions of the words they're using, this definition makes no sense whatsoever. Just read it carefully.

Every time you are corrected, attacked or criticized, you move the goalpost and say "but just because I'm wrong doesn't mean you're right" WE KNOW THAT, but just because you're wrong means you're wrong.

That's why I feel so sorry for you. You seem to be so desperate and angry, you're really starting to lose it. Calm down, take a deep breathe, you'll be find. No one said "if i'm wrong it doesn't mean you're right"... this is called lying Josh. I don't know you'll understand that since you have no definitions of morals, but that's what I'm here for, I'm trying to help you. I said, "And again, nothing you presented in this comment is evidence for evolution." I like science. But evolution has nothing to do with science. Evolution is just smuggled in on the back on real science.

Who ever claimed otherwise? But who ever claimed that cells and DNA can violate chemistry and physics? Is that one of the "deeper things" you're hoping to see?

Decode: to translate (data or a message) from a code into the original language or form
They're not even close. So that would logically conclude that there's more underneath. If you follow this back to its origin (something you seem to have a problem with), this is another piece of you picking on an example and missing the point.

I will not read the rest if I can already sniff out the obvious mistakes, misconceptions and problems in your claims, bad analogies going unnoticed cannot produce an honest scientific discourse.

Thank you for being honest. It's about time one of the evolutionists/atheists on here admitted that they don't read everything. I've told about all of them that they don't, and no one's yet admitted it. Therefore, if you're not gonna' read all the material, how can anyone trust what you're saying? How could we even trust that you've read all the information in your evolutionary biology books? You don't read with an intent to learn, you read with the intent of finding a way to preaching on the evolutionary pulpit.
I'm sorry, but after reading this, I can't trust your comments anymore to be accurate.

I'm gonna' have to stop responding here because this is far longer than I wanted it to be. This whole line of comments is simply him saying, "You don't know anything about biology." And me saying, "Please show us evidence for evolution."

I will go over your youtube video on the DNA and chromosomes, double check the material, and if I typo'd or misquoted anything, I'll be happy to correct it. I, however, will be very skeptical of it because of the first 45 seconds presented.
These atheists/evolutionists will stoop to any level to attempt to make a Christian/Creationist look foolish. The guy on the video wants to use Dr. Kent Hovind going to prison as some ad hominem attack. I've read the court case on the issue. I'll guarantee you haven't, and neither has the guy speaking. Since this is a 'so-called' liberty based movement, you'd think people would want to find out the truth about the illegal things the IRS did to Kent and his family. But... if it helps to attack a creationist to make one's religious worldview look better... might make right eh? Just a means to an end to people with your religous worldview of evolution.

Josh, feel free to comment as much as you like. I'm done responding to you because you're really wasting my time here. Provide some evidence for evolution, and I will look at it. However, I don't believe you've ever once posted your own article with explanations for evolution in it. If you have, I certainly missed it, so please let me know. You've certainly, with all the comments and youtube video look-ups, have had enough time to write one, but still don't do it. I've told you once, and I'll tell you again, go write your own article on evidence for evolution, so everyone can see it.

I just personally think you're afraid to do that because you'd be under the spotlight of logical scrutiny.

_______________________________________________________________
"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called." -1 Timothy 6:20

Christopher Posted by Christopher on Wed, 05/20/2009 - 9:20am
Straw man & dumb questions

1) Does that prove that New York City evolved from Los Angeles? Anybody with half a brain would see the absurdity in that.

Michael Behe made it clear in his book that we should not confuse "physical precursor" with "conceptual precursor". But that is a bad explanation, because unless we first agree there was any concept, design, there is no "conceptual precursor". Furthermore, since we KNOW that life (or living orgs) CAN reproduce, replicate, and mutate, physical precursor fits living beings. On top of this, mutations and common ancestry (for the sake of argument, think micro changes and close relatives), have proven to be physical precursors.

Creationists want to claim there's a wall that stops A from evolving into B, but they cannot see it, find it, define, or provide a way to test it. We have asked TIME AND TIME AGAIN where is the limit to evolution, and there has never been an answer (not even an attempt to give a bad answer).

By the way, last time I checked, Behe accepts common descent.

2) Does the patterns of BCTMCTBMCB, etc... explain how an internal combustion engine works? Does it explain how a differential works? How about the city's electrical or sewer system?

No, BCTMCT does not explain how combustion engine works. Nor does ATTTCG explain how DNA works.

However, we can (and have) dug deeper to find how DNA works (it's called the laws of chemistry and physics). Can you find an example of DNA or any biological organism violating the familiar laws of chemistry and physics?

Scientists don't just look at DNA and say ATTTCG proves how DNA works, that's a retarded straw man I can't believe you're actually making. Scientists actually first observed that traits are inherited, then found that cell nuclei is where info is stored, then it took a long time before we were able to understand the double helix structure. Adenine does not prove how adenine works, and a series of cars does not prove how a car works. But we have not seen ANY sign of DNA violating physics and chemistry, nor would aliens see cars violate natural laws.

What does a city's sewer have to do with a series of cars? Are you kidding me?

Are you denying that a full DNA sequence (aka genome) contains all the information necessary to build a cell? Are you seriously saying that DNA base pairs are as relevant to cell function as cars are to sewage system??

By the way........what makes you think NYC & LA have the same patterns or car brands (in abundance and in order)? That's already a VERY VERY unbased assumption. If there WERE actually such a pattern, we humans would be VERY interested in seeing how the F--- that could be. (and no, I'm not getting into statistics and probability with you since you don't even know DNA and complexity)

Cynical Posted by Cynical on Wed, 05/13/2009 - 8:05pm
And yet, you gotta' back it up with something.

Michael Behe made it clear in his book that we should not confuse "physical precursor" with "conceptual precursor". But that is a bad explanation, because unless we first agree there was any concept, design, there is no "conceptual precursor". Furthermore, since we KNOW that life (or living orgs) CAN reproduce, replicate, and mutate, physical precursor fits living beings. On top of this, mutations and common ancestry (for the sake of argument, think micro changes and close relatives), have proven to be physical precursors.

Again, this is what many evolutionists have done on this website: You 'claim' that is it proven, but provide us with no specific examples as evidence. It's like you're asking the rest of us to 'trust you'. I'm sorry, but George W tried the same tactic, and I didn't believe him.

Creationists want to claim there's a wall that stops A from evolving into B, but they cannot see it, find it, define, or provide a way to test it. We have asked TIME AND TIME AGAIN where is the limit to evolution, and there has never been an answer (not even an attempt to give a bad answer).

The answer has been posted time and time again, but you're refusing to see it because you like your worldview of no God. It is observed that dogs produce dogs. That's all we've ever seen. We get big dogs and little dogs, but nothing else is ever produced. If you want to BELIEVE they come from something that is non-dog, or can change into something that is non-dog, that's fine. You're welcome to believe whatever you want. But I want to stick with the observerable evidence, instead of imagination (conceptual precursor).

By the way, last time I checked, Behe accepts common descent.

I don't follow Behe's word, I've simply quoted from his book in the past. I follow God's Word because it's never been proven wrong.

No, BCTMCT does not explain how combustion engine works. Nor does ATTTCG explain how DNA works.

Good job! You got it. So to claim that they've decoded the human DNA is ridiculous.

However, we can (and have) dug deeper to find how DNA works (it's called the laws of chemistry and physics). Can you find an example of DNA or any biological organism violating the familiar laws of chemistry and physics?

You 'can and have dug deeper'... I'm sure people have begun to do so. What does the laws of chemistry and physics have to do with evolution? Evolution defies laws of chemistry and physics. I've never claimed DNA violates them. (See The Big Dud Theory for more details on evolution theory violating known laws of chemistry and physics)

Scientists don't just look at DNA and say ATTTCG proves how DNA works, that's a retarded straw man I can't believe you're actually making. Scientists actually first observed that traits are inherited, then found that cell nuclei is where info is stored, then it took a long time before we were able to understand the double helix structure. Adenine does not prove how adenine works, and a series of cars does not prove how a car works. But we have not seen ANY sign of DNA violating physics and chemistry, nor would aliens see cars violate natural laws.

And I've listened to evolutionists say that the human genome project is evidence for evolution because they've decoded the human DNA. That's ridiculous.. The complexity of the double helix found in the cell nuclei explains nothing on how it got there. All it tells us is how very far advanced it is beyond all our intelligence and own ability to create anything even close to its complexity. Yet, some people, with a crazy religion, want to believe it can arise from nothing. You can believe whatever you want, I don't care what you believe. But don't call evolution science... it's not observable. Trying to pass this off a straw man doesn't provide evidence for your theory.

What does a city's sewer have to do with a series of cars? Are you kidding me?

There are deeper complexities in the cell and DNA beyond our current understanding. Just because we can see some of it now, doesn't mean there's not more underneath all that. Stop and think about what's being said before saying the first thing that comes off the top of your head. Or, at least, inquire with a desire to gain knowledge, rather than inquire with the intention to attack someone else's character.

Are you denying that a full DNA sequence (aka genome) contains all the information necessary to build a cell? Are you seriously saying that DNA base pairs are as relevant to cell function as cars are to sewage system??

Are you making this up as you go along? My article has statements in it that directly contradict that (concerning how the chromosomes contain all the information needed to recreate a person), so I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with your questions. It's obvious you didn't read the whole article, you just took out things you didn't like and attempted to respond in a childish fashion. I'll be glad to take questions, but read the material first.

By the way........what makes you think NYC & LA have the same patterns or car brands (in abundance and in order)? That's already a VERY VERY unbased assumption. If there WERE actually such a pattern, we humans would be VERY interested in seeing how the F--- that could be. (and no, I'm not getting into statistics and probability with you since you don't even know DNA and complexity)

A classic example of the evolutionists picking on the example, and missing the point. Similarities between the two would not prove one sired the other. Rather, it proves common design. But you don't WANT to see that design, because it suggests a Designer. Plain and simple. (claim someone doesn't know something, but not give specific examples... you're really hurting your credibility here Josh)
_______________________________________________________________
"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called." -1 Timothy 6:20

Christopher Posted by Christopher on Tue, 05/19/2009 - 2:17pm
Chris, you amaze me again

Your ignorance still hasn't changed much.

The chromosome is like a ladder that is twisted up. Each rung in the ladder is call a gene. So when someone refers to your genes, they're referring to these rungs in the ladder, which are made up half from your father, and half from your mother. That's where you get into dominate and recessive traits from your genes.

DNA double helix is like a ladder.
Each rung in the ladder is called a "base or base pair"
When we refer to genes, we are talking about a sequence of bases ATGGGAACCC, not single bases.
Chromosome is actually the coil OF DNA double helix (and a human genome has 23 pairs).

I guess you never saw your friend Dr. Hovind corrected

You like to talk about how evolution requires so much faith a single digit year old can know better, yet you can't even use freshman college biology terminology.

And yes, DNA provides proof for evolution & common descent, but that's not to say the complexity of DNA itself can prove abiogenesis. Something is not true or false based on how complex a product is (by the way, you don't even know how to measure Kolmogorov complexity, do you?)

So the evolutionists will look at these base pairs and say, for example, that column #9 has an A. Then they'll line up a chimpanzee chromosome next to it, compare column #9 and find it also contains A. They line up the two, compare them both, and find a 98% similarity between chimps and humans for their DNA sequence. They claim this is evidence of a common ancestor.

You like this argument?
Your Shakespeare analogy fails.
If we found two books that are 98% similar in order, wording, writing style, it's considered plagiarism (common ancestry). Common designer cannot be refuted because the definition does not allow it to (does it?). Can you deny that black people are actually people even though they have 99.9% genome as you? Why can't we say black people are created by a common designer, separate but equal?

Cynical Posted by Cynical on Wed, 05/13/2009 - 2:22am
I'll take some time later to

I'll take some time later to go through the examples given in your youtube video (though, it's funny how you always respond with atheist youtube videos, instead of just telling me yourself), and I may have made some mistakes, which I'm always willing to correct. That's why I appreciate the criticism, so I can fix things I didn't type out correctly.

It still amazes me though, that the atheists/evolutionists RARELY produce anything on here in contradiction. They just leech off whatever someone else has written.

And again, nothing you presented in this comment is evidence for evolution. You're seriously straining at a gnat, and swallowing an elephant. I'll get to that later when I've got some time to devote to looking over it.

Explain to me, and everyone else, how complex code can develope and arrange itself from nothing. I wanna' read it your explanation, not a youtube video post.
_______________________________________________________________
"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called." -1 Timothy 6:20

Christopher Posted by Christopher on Tue, 05/19/2009 - 2:35pm
"And again, nothing you

"And again, nothing you presented in this comment is evidence for evolution."

Until you understand how biology works, you will not see evidence if it was in front of you.

Remember when I asked you to show me which of the sequences was common descent or designer?
Remember when I asked you if you can tell me which one was forged and faked?
You don't know how coding works, so if that was evidence, you won't see it, would you?

Explain to me, and everyone else, how complex code can develope and arrange itself from nothing.
It didn't. Who said it arranged itself from nothing?

Cynical Posted by Cynical on Tue, 05/19/2009 - 6:52pm
Classic example of 'the best they've got'.

The tail is either growing, or receding.
But both would prove evolution as is. And for sure a bad scratch on ?Intelligent? Design! Since I don't "Need" a tail.
Thus the development of the "tail" part as is, is uncalled for, or a mutation, or a trace of what was in the past needed by the creatures we came from.
Oh wait here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality#Coccyx
"Coccyx
The coccyx, or tailbone, is the remnant of a lost tail. All mammals have a tail at one point in their development; in humans, it is present for a period of 4 weeks, during stages 14 to 22 of human embryogenesis.[5] This tail is most prominent in human embryos 31-35 days old.[6] The tailbone, located at the end of the spine, has lost its original function in assisting balance and mobility, though it still serves some secondary functions, such as being an attachment point for muscles, which explains why it has not degraded further. In rare cases a short tail can persist after birth, with 23 human babies possessing tails having been reported in the medical literature since 1884"

The Coccyx is not even close to evidence for evolution. Folks, if you read what he's saying, he posted quite a bit of information, but not one bit of it is evidence that we all evolved from a rock 4.6 billion years ago. You can 'claim' it is the remnants of a tree-living ancestor, but where's your scientific evidence for that? Copy and pasting from wikipedia is not scientific evidence.

You copied that from the "Human Vestigiality" section. The tailbone is not vestigial. There are nine muscles that attach to the tailbone, without which you could not perform some daily functions on the toilet. If you think the tailbone is vestigial, I will find a way to pay to have yours removed. Let me know.

Is that the best you've got? I'm sorry, I just don't have as much faith as you do to believe that we all evolved from a rock 4.6 billion years ago.
_______________________________________________________________
"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called." -1 Timothy 6:20

Christopher Posted by Christopher on Tue, 05/05/2009 - 10:03pm
No, the best I got

Was in the part you didn't reply to.

No problem. Christian hypocrisy were always 2 sides of the same coin.

Start running to the hospital the moment you feel any pain.. Imagine God is calling, and you are to afraid to pick up...

Doctors, You don't need them, you have faith. (hahahahahahaha!)

See ya in hell. Burn baby burn. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sY2rjxq6M
--
Don't Think, Act!
Don't Question, Follow!

And don't bother telling an enraged lynch mob with a raging bloodlust, the truth.

TranceAm Posted by TranceAm on Wed, 05/06/2009 - 5:22pm
Physicians Existed In Biblical Times

Physicians existed in biblical times. And nowhere does God or Christ teach not to seek the assistance of a physician if need be. And medicine is not all all about purely science, as there is a mind body connection that most physicians will acknowledge also. And that attitude is everything also many times in the equation, and also faith and trust in your caregiver, and that that caregiver also has some moral foundation - otherwise, I certainly wouldn't want a cold harded scientist treating my child and viewing him merely as a lab creature, or experiement, or with the same view he would if he were operating on a animal rather than a human being. You'd better hope the next doctor that treats you has a moral foundation, and is not purely a "scientist" conducting a lab exercise.

Betsy Ross

Betsy Ross Posted by Betsy Ross on Wed, 05/20/2009 - 2:18pm
hope is cheap, I understand

hope is cheap, I understand nobody owes me anything, so I take responsibility for my own illness and death. Sucks for you you expect more, learn to enjoy some disappointments.

anyway, you can't expect a physician to treat you like a human being, and then say his foundations of medical science are not based on animal studies because animals are (or are not) related to humans, or that we should experiment on humans to get the best picture of how to diagnose humans.

Cynical Posted by Cynical on Wed, 05/20/2009 - 2:26pm
What a bunch of crap

What a bunch of crap. And I hope you "tough it through" your next major surgery or operation. Or wold appear most likely you are young - and then "take responsibility" for your own surgery. What a bunch of horse manure. And hope you enjoy your cynical attitude, and your atheism, since you most likely will live a life of utter hopelessness and aloneness in your "it's all about me" attitude.

Our youth truly is lost, that's for sure.

Betsy Ross

Betsy Ross Posted by Betsy Ross on Wed, 05/20/2009 - 3:15pm
what makes you think I care

what makes you think I care about being neglected, abandoned and ignored? Sucks for you you can't take it. Keep hoping the worst for me, I'm sure God answers your prayers.

Cynical Posted by Cynical on Wed, 05/20/2009 - 5:38pm
I Would Imagine You Are In YOur 20's or early 30's

I would imagine you are in your 20's or early 30's. We'll see if your views change as you approach 50, 60 or beyond. And also whether you know then as much as you seem to think you know now.

Betsy Ross

Betsy Ross Posted by Betsy Ross on Wed, 05/20/2009 - 3:12pm
Yes, I will definitely learn

Yes, I will definitely learn more things, no doubt. But I dont expect myself to be blaming other people like socialists do, or think that doctors owe me surgery just because I can't do it myself or aren't ready to die.

Cynical Posted by Cynical on Wed, 05/20/2009 - 5:40pm
Propagandized Education

Its not worth the time, since we are coming from two different value systems, and life views. And besides, you have been propagandized by the U.S. educational system since your birth, and most likely attended a college funded by the New World Order atheists anyway. So what is the point. Your positions in and of themselves demonstrate how corrupted our youth have become by the U.S. educational system. Unless you were homeschooled which I doubt by a parent who had that reading, writing and arithmetic not supplemented by federal garbage.

Sort of like the "myth" of the Kennedy era that continues to be used today politically, which has no basis in fact. In fact, in my homerooms during school when I was attending during Kennedy's administration, we had duck and cover exercises - and those "scientists" you are so enamoured with developed supposedl a "cure" for radiation sickness that they fed us - ask your parents or another baby boomer about the "sugar cubes" the science community developed.

Betsy Ross

Betsy Ross Posted by Betsy Ross on Fri, 05/22/2009 - 5:51am
It's Too Bad You Can't Remember

It's too bad you can't remember what health care was like before the Nixon Administration (a Republican administration, not Democratic). Since Nixon "created" the HMO concept of mass produced medicine by an Act that was passed during his administration. And which now has resulted in patient care being determined by Boards of Directors, rather than physicians. Or remember when there was a treble damage award lid on punitive damages for medical malpractice claims, which kept the cost of professional liability policies affordable for doctors. Since really you are only entitled under civil laws to be reimbursed for your actual losses, either in property or injury.

It isn't the socialists that created this nightmare in health care. It is your good old "corporate" loving legislators that believed in "free markets" that removed damage award lids on punitive damages (since those are discretionary anyway, the states had the perfect right to place limits on discretionary awards, rather than limits on actual damages).

You are too young, and too arrogant to stop blaming and start looking for the causes that created this mess. And truly are pretty naive and you with such an attitude doubt you will ever learn, or be open to hearing from maybe some that know a hell of a lot more than you do about why we are no in this mess, and what actually "created" it. And the cures are not allowing people like yourself to self-govern. Since it is clear you hve no respect whatsoever for others.

Betsy Ross

Betsy Ross Posted by Betsy Ross on Fri, 05/22/2009 - 5:38am
Corporatists are not my

Corporatists are not my friends, but I dont complain about them either, they're human just like you.

It has nothing to do with my education, if I had none you'd say I have none and can't talk, if I had some, you'd say I'm brainwashed, either way, if I disagree with you, I'm always wrong according to you.

"Since it is clear you hve no respect whatsoever for others."
Yes, I sure don't, that includes corporations, so don't say they're my friends.

Cynical Posted by Cynical on Fri, 05/22/2009 - 12:19pm
Eh.. No Betsy.. BS.

Another claim from your dissepears in the void of fear without an echo.

And Betsy.. there is a difference in Thinking you are right, and KNOWING you are NOT wrong.

--
Don't Think, Act!
Don't Question, Follow!

And don't bother telling an enraged lynch mob with a raging bloodlust, the truth.

TranceAm Posted by TranceAm on Wed, 05/20/2009 - 3:43pm
Your Hypothesis is Based On Pure Theory

For a hypothesis based on pure theory, which is weaker actually than faith, your hypocricy again rears its head in "knowing" you aren't wrong, since even the greatest scientists in the world were creationists, and I don't think you have been awarded a Nobel prize for true science, have you?

Betsy Ross

Betsy Ross Posted by Betsy Ross on Wed, 05/20/2009 - 3:48pm
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