BOINC the Matrix-wanna fight HIV and cancer, and get our name out there?
Posted by wallyjark on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 17:35 in Hey guys-
I'm not sure how well known it is within this community, but I just found out about a great project called BOINC. Basically, it involves the personal computers of many individuals who voluntarily contribute their computer's down-time to help solve big computational problems. So for example, I leave my computer on all day at school, though I only use if for a few hours on any given day. Whenever it is idle, I have the program called BOINC set up to run.
I don't know too much about biology, so I'm sorry I won't be able to explain it very well, but the project I contribute to (a not for profit group called Rosetta) basically allows your computer to do computations that predict properties of proteins with the University of Washington. These are pretty complex problems which would be difficult for single computers to do by themselves, but with a decentralized network of personal computers each contributing a little like the network that exists with BOINC, researchers can get a lot done.
So where does BTM come in? I thought of several opportunities that we have with the program.
1. I picked the Rosetta project because it appears to be the largest group with about 200,000 members. Most 'teams' you can join, however, have only about 1,000 members. If a large enough number of us were to join a team, we could accomplish quite a bit. Each day, the main Rosetta site recognizes a team that happened made the most important contribution in that day, and they are almost always different teams that happen to get it. If we form a large enough group (only one of the top 20 groups has more members than the BTM community) we should definitely get some front page exposure for our cause.
2. The results that we as individuals can accomplish for science, without us having to really even know the science, can become another great example of the ability of free individuals to make major advances in the sciences and the humanities, without the direct need of government support.
3. I think I can speak for the group in saying that we can appreciate the satisfaction of knowing that we are contributing to major advances in the medical field. On the home page it says that the work our personal computers are doing contribute to their efforts in fighting diseases such as "HIV, Malaria, Cancer, and Alzheimer's." And there are statistics for measuring the contributions of our personal computers and team as a whole have made in the efforts.
The site link is http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/
I created a team called 'BOINC the Matrix for Liberty' which those interested in this venture can join after going to the site, finding more info on the project, and following the instructions. So far I'm the only lonely member, but I hope we can create a big showing!
Thanks guys!
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Doesn't affect my way of life. No reason for me to care or contribute.
too many people
any old dogs in your life perhaps?
As with anything else here, if it doesn't affect my way of life, the hell with it.
After all, when you boil it down, that is the ruling mantra of BTM.
You consistently break with reason when you assert that having compassion for someone or sympathy requires that you allow yourself to be forced at gunpoint to give up your life and your property for that person at someone else's whim, in the proportion that someone else decides, without any choice of how much, to whom, and at what limit the "giving" (more like being taken from) ends. To you, people are either compassionate slaves or selfish ogres. To you, people are slaves to the state, with responsibilities to everyone and everything but themselves, without a right to their life or the fruits of their labor, but only to that portion of it that a benevolent government decides is appropriate for you to keep (if you are still alive when they are done using you for war purposes) after every "worthy cause" has been funded and every item on their power grab agenda has been satisfied. You make a fine communist, although there are not many places where people are still insane enough to practice it at all, much less in the fine tradition of Joseph Stalin or Chairman Mao. Perhaps there is somewhere in Russia where former communists long for the "good old days." Why don't you go looking?
Tom Mullen
www.tommullen.net
www.myspace.com/skepticsongs
on your theory that the US government must stay outside of areas that do not directly affect your way of life. That if it does not affect your way of life, you are not obliged to provide monetary support even though a democratic minded society, protecting your minority individual rights via a written constitution, tells you you must.
I'm sure there is a desert somewhere where you can live your life all by yourself, not bothered by ethics nor morality.
Tom Mullen
www.tommullen.net
www.myspace.com/skepticsongs
As your life, death, sadness, sickness, and mental instability has no affect on my lifestyle, I couldn't be bothered with letting you know anything. Just doing my part to Break The Matrix.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/lines/IAtransitional.shtml
"Hey Tim, how do you "teach evolution", champ? Since there are no transitional forms in the fossil record and since Darwin's theory has taken it on the chin for the past decade and Darwinians are really starting to look like religious zealots with no game... what is this "evidence and reason" you're talking about?"
I am glad you are outta here for a few weeks. Sad that your last statement before you leave is a lie.
Lying is immoral.
To state that there are no "transitional forms" is a lie. Transitional forms exists everywhere.
Do you lie to your children too?
Creation thread --- then you can enjoy leafing through 50 pages of similar comments!
"misguided effort : finding a cure for a disease should be an effort driven by profit, not goodwill."
JUST WHAT KIND OF NONSENSE ARE YOU SPEWING NOW?
just my usual brand of nonsense
So first of all, I'm not sure how different science research would be in the perfect free market world. A couple things I've learned from my little exposure to the scientific world is that the community is driven by what I might consider pseudo-market forces. The incentive isn't purely money, but partly comes from the egoism of scientists (I can say this because I'm a scientist :) ). In the physics world at least, the physicists with the reputation as the hardest-workers are those aiming for a Nobel. Within the larger scientific community, though, challenging the status quo is still the goal for most. (As an aside, a reason it's difficult for many to disbelieve evolution is that scientists would be working their asses off if they could find some solid piece of evidence that would turn the field upside down and they could get credit for it). So the desire for a major breakthrough and recognition with an individualist's philosophy is one pseudo-force that has put the US ahead in getting it's name on 48 'Nobel Prizes in Physiology or Medicine' just since 1950 (with many more before that of course-I stopped counting after a while http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_in_Physiology_or_Medicine)
That said, money is of course also a major issue in science. If you want to keep doing research, you have to keep getting results for funding. Private groups like the Howard Hughes Medical Institute and Gates foundation wouldn't be giving startup funding to groups who they are convinced will produce crappy (or no) results. It's a stiff competition in every field to do well enough to get funding.
Beyond the pride and funding pseudo-market incentives, however, is a real market incentive-namely whenever they do create a new drug, they sell the rights to drug companies for a significant price. I just read an estimate that says a third of the drugs on the market are created in research universities, so these research environments end up being sort of proxies for market corporations that keep the competition going (though the BOINC project I mentioned earlier is supposed to be not for profit).
Finally, I would even donate my computer's spare time to the project even if the information it produced were available to the public. This particular computing network runs about 66 teraflops, which something like Blue Gene could also do, but for millions of dollars more. I see this similar to open-source projects like Linux. Luckily free individuals have fun with their inventiveness and put it up in the open. Linux designed something like what mac now calls 'spaces' a while ago. This didn't end up hurting the market, but in fact raised the floor for what is acceptable in the market so now my mac has a spaces program packaged in by default. Wikipedia is similarly created by open-source type contributions, and they just pressure brittanica online and other knowledge bases to make their services that much better if they want people to pay for them. I similarly see the BOINC network as raising the standards to cause drug company R&D teams to find better methods of research and pressuring IBM and computing companies to produce cheaper and faster computers for those who need more control and instant power than a loose network of free individuals can offer.
I'm not sure how von Mises would view open sourcing and the market, but it doesn't sound like a bad idea at all to raise the floor for what is doable in the market place, especially if it is at no cost to me and I'm doing it on my own accord. But I'm open to corrections/criticism if you have any.
> As an aside, a reason it's difficult for many to disbelieve evolution is that scientists would be working their asses off if they could find some solid piece of evidence that would turn the field upside down and they could get credit for it
< i don't understand what you're saying here. maybe there's some gremlin in your grammar? could you clarify this?
It's just come up before in my discussions with a lot of my friends so I guess it made more sense in my head. Friends I talk to think there's a big conspiracy within the scientific community to force evolution on everyone else and hide evidence that supports literal Bible stories.
The answer I've heard from other scientists in the discussions give is by stressing the fact that science is in many senses the field for the maverick. Einstein and others, for example, have ended up going against the whole science community and ended up being right. So in this case where some think there's a pro-evolution conspiracy/cover up of real evidence, in reality someone who could find evidence would put it out there to become the next Einstein to revolutionize their scientific field. So this struggle among many individual scientists to make a new big discovery for me at least makes orthodox scientific knowledge more credible, and I believe works as an incentive in the 'science market' like profits do in a normal market.
Is that clearer?
> Friends I talk to think there's a big conspiracy within the scientific community to force evolution on everyone else and hide evidence that supports literal Bible stories.
< your friends are delusional. i suggest you get yourself a new batch of friends. unless of course you feel comfortable around delusional people. the rest of your comment is a feeble attempt at finding some sort of rational to discredit one of the most eloquent and simplest explanations of life as we know it, backed by proof no less. there is no god there never was and never will be. we are creatures that have evolved, not sprung into existence. i know logic can be hard to take when you were taught to lie to yourself since you were an infant, but you should at least try. i suggest you actually learn everything about evolution and what is proposed by natural selection before you put your silly bible stories of adam and eve and the talking snake before the scientific explanation based on evidence.
hmmm... it seems to me that people are still not getting it.
let me put it in general terms once again:
1. profit is an incentive which brings results.
2. charity and subsidies are an obstacle to progress because they remove incentive.
is this so hard to understand? this is true everywhere you look but you ladies are obviously so emotionally charged about thinking you're part of a solution that you're willing to discard this truth.
i gave you a very good example of what charity can result in:
"Researcher Dr Chris Tselepis worked with an international team which has found that TE7, an experimental culture of cancer cells used in labs for the past 20 years, was the wrong cancer."
a company doing research purely based on a profit incentive would not have made such a mistake. 20 years of wrong research, useless. 20 years of capable people being completely useless. people like you enable this sort of thing when these researchers could have been working under proper scrutiny that is actually required by a company which stands to lose money on a mistake of that proportion.
so put a bandaid on your bleeding hearts, wipe your tears, grow a pair and understand how the real world works.
I don't even know what to say to this... it's just offensive to the core.
We'll have to agree to disagree about what "charity" as you are calling it...
I take offense to the fact that you called me a lady, told me to grow an pair and understand how the real world works. You're completely rude and offensive...
First - being a 'lady' is not something any woman should be ashamed of. Using this as a derogatory term and insinuating being a lady is a bad thing is inexcusable and for that you should be ashamed of yourself.
Second - For your example of how 'profits are the only thing that drive success' I can provide instances where non profiteering types have had successes in research.
I understand your point about free markets drive success, competition breeds success and greed above all ensures success but that doesn't mean it's the only way... nor does it definitively mean it's the right way. There are many ways to solve problems... my way isn't the right way just because I think "hey I am right" and neither is yours.
It's intriguing to me that your initial attack on the World Community Grid was an attack about technical issues... then (after being told you were wrong) you turn on to the monetary side of why this isn't a good project to join.
This is what I don't get... if it's not the right thing for you because of your views and beliefs why is it that you would not afford anyone else the opportunity to research it and find out on their own if it was something they would like to participate in. You stated your case, you defended it and your points are noted... why do you so vehemently argue that this project is "bad" based on the argument of the proponents of it being "bleeding hearts with no testicles"?
How about you let it go and let people make their own choices. Stop chastising those of us who choose to do it as though we are harming you or the world and without question stop using the term 'lady' as a derogatory term. You owe the women of this site an apology... though I hope they don't hold their breath waiting for it.
Regards,
Ryan McAdams
do you happen to have several accounts?
I'm trying to figure out where all the instant -8's are coming from ---- it looks like their are only 2 engaged in this conversation...
All of my blogs just received -8's as well and my guess is that it came from the same person that did it on this thread. I hope it wouldn't be just from one or two people as that would be most fraudulent!
If that was the case dont you think my own content would be + intead of -? Dont you think I'd bump posts and content I'd like with several accounts? I honestly can't be bothered to do such a thing.
In all seriousness... I do get passionate about things... but not enough to create a bunch of fake accounts. Break The Matrix means more to me than that...
Regards,
Ryan McAdams
immediately after I got -8's here all of my blog entries were hit with -8's. I kind of doubt that 8 people were simultaneously vindictive enough to head over to my blogs - which are completely unrelated to this topic- and click on the down arrow all in the same instant......
So... I tell you that I don't and you want to tell me that I'm a liar? Give me a break.. maybe there are just that many people who think you're an ass. It obviously drew some attention.
Regards,
Ryan McAdams
It just struck me as weird, I'm not saying you had anything to do with it
Really this all started after I made a comment in passing about this project, It seems that you were really upset by it
Anyhow, it sounds like a noble cause certainly, and I didn't mean to badmouth it --- actually there were not that many comments when I started and I try to make a habit of leaving comments on threads that aren't getting that much attention -- I guess it worked here
No need to hurl insults really. I know what it's like when someone raises a leg on something you care about.
You certainly have a temper. I'll keep that in mind for next time. In the meantime perhaps you might lighten up a little.......
I dont like having my integrity questioned. That's it.
Regards,
Ryan McAdams
questioned
god damn it adamadamr would you just stop it with the bitching about the votes man? srsly. it's enough. everyone knows you don't like it. just let it go. create a few accounts of your own and remedy the situation that way. just stop already with the vote count.
.
Conspiracy continues... As you probably well know, I have been making these accusations (several accounts, agenda's) for some time... I'm trying to help.. I got you and awesome o down to -7's :)
!
Now I know what you are talking about, I don't think I got the gist of your conspiracy before (perhaps you are not really ET after all)
I think my fellow BTMer might have a few extra accounts due to his managing so many computers,