Are 9-11 Truthers Welcome Here?
A couple of weeks ago, I posted a column titled "Are Jewish People Welcome Here?" My answer-- yes they are. Not all Zionists are neocons; and not all neocons are Zionists. I argued in the earlier column that our freedom movement has many Jewish friends and supporters, and it is both inaccurate and bad strategy for freedom lovers to blame a small minority of the American people for the many problems that exist at home and abroad. Indeed, what kind of people are we to think that a tiny handful of AIPAC types could possibly control a great nation like ours for long? As "V" said in the movie classic V For Vendetta (see my "Jew Bashing" column): if we want to learn what's wrong in this country, we need only look in the mirror. Once the American people elect to throw off these dark people in Washington DC and Wall Street who've plundered and bankrupted our nation, the process will be as simple as making the decision to do so and acting on that decision. Our adversaries have no mystical powers; and their corrupt system is collapsing in front of our eyes even as I write these words. Our adversaries are weak, ladies and gentlemen, and they have nothing to offer but decline, and failure, and bankruptcy and debt. The strength of our ideas can easily overcome such things.
But how? Where can the truth be found and spoken in a matrix of lies? How do we break up this close knit alliance of banksters, war profiteers, media lapdogs and corrupt politicians that seek to control the world we live in? How do we build the political power that will be needed to defeat these people in a nonviolent way? The answer, I suggest, is simple and straightforward-- COMMUNITY! Political power IS community. Isolated individuals and small groups can be easily marginalized and pushed into the irrelevant fringe. We've all seen the effect of isolation-- and we know to a certainty that isolation is a strategy eternally doomed to failure. Our leaders are not fools, and they actively seek to keep us separated and apart-- for very good reason. They know, as we do, that a vibrant community of freedom lovers can quickly displace the charlatans who presently control our money and our country. And they know, as we do, that once we succeed in building community, their failed leadership will be only for the moment.
Which brings me to 9-11 truthers and the point of this column. Are 9-11 truthers welcome here? Our answer-- of course they are! Freedom people who question the 9-11 Commission Report are among the strongest voices out there. We need their passion; their energy; their commitment to truth. Very simply, (and imho), we all should recognize that 9-11 truthers are an important part of the freedom community.
This is not to say that any of us need to accept their proffered evidence at face value. 9-11 truthers make interesting and intriguing arguments about deficiencies in the official report, but I think it's fair to say that an impartial observer will quickly point to gaping holes and shortcomings in truther positions as well. At this point, (again, imho), the best that can be said is that the 9-11 story has yet to be written in full. To the extent that 9-11 truthers are asking questions; gathering evidence; asserting plausible arguments-- where can there be a legitimate objection to this sort of truth seeking activity? The call for fresh and unbiased investigation has been supported by Ron Paul among many others, and we at BreakTheMatrix think Dr. Paul's position on further study is right on the mark.
The deeper questions, however, are those of priority and strategy. The search for 9-11 truth, by definition, is an effort that looks backward in time, while we at BreakTheMatrix think our movement should be forward looking. The 9-11 truth effort is to assign accountability (blame?) for events that occurred years ago, while we at BreakTheMatrix perceive that it is much more important to create a vision for the better America of the future. 9-11 truth is a strategy for solving old mysteries, but we at BreakTheMatrix think the sounder approach is to focus on creating a stronger and more prosperous America now, and for our children. Very simply, we at BreakTheMatrix have a fundamentally different strategy for success than is found in the 9-11 movement, and to that extent, we think their movement is not on target.
Finally, there's the issue of tone. Would any of us suggest that the American people will respond favorably to a negative message? Optimism; hope; peace; prosperity-- these are the things that we at BreakTheMatrix believe should be presented as "truth;" and all of these things become possible once the plunderers are swept away. A positive tone is what's needed, and that's where we perceive our focus should be. So join us, 9-11 truthers-- on the bright side.
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Anybody with half a brain, who actually sat down to look at the evidence knows that 9/11 was a false-flag.
And since this community is surrounded by people who know how to think, then naturally there are going to be plenty who realize that 9/11 was an inside job.
Although, I would agree to stay focused on the positive, I think this author implies that 9/11 may not have been a false-flag. And that is a sell-out to the truth.
"Whether 9/11 truthers are right or wrong, the very fact that government officials and agencies can withhold information from the public under the dubious banner of "national security" means we have to put far too much faith in our corrupt government officials and that is a very dangerous thing."
YES!!
See, if the truthers spent their energy soliciting and exposing the lack of transparency (which is blatant and true), they would gather supporters the way snowballs gather skiiers...
Making accusations and declarations that can't be proven and sound preposterous, serves the wrong purpose altogether.
There is no reason an open democracy needs secrets.
Suppose you turn out to be correct about the government conspiracy, and top government officials, Bush Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, etc... are all found guilty of murder and treason. You have been vindicated and our government has been thoroughly discredited by the 9/11 investigation (as if they hadn't already discredited themselves in many other ways).
Okay, so what comes next? What would be your plan moving forward? How do we get from there to limited constitutional government, or is that even what you all want? How many of you are big-government "progressives", or socialists, for example?
I wonder how much mental energy 9/11 truthers devote to thinking about what kind of government we SHOULD have in this country. Certainly, that is what the bulk of BTM members are concerned with, and we should resist allowing this site to be co-opted by one particular group that does not have the same goal in mind.
I mean, it's like asking the group of people that like drinking wine what their preferred kind of government is. I don't think there is a direct correlation between 9/11 truthers and their political stance.
Speaking for myself however, I am all for smaller government, less power in the hands of the few and free markets. 9/11 truth does speak directly to the role of government because it exposes just how dangerous a government with too much power can be. I think many 9/11 truthers would like to see far more transparency in government and the rule of law and the Constitution. Likely the abolition of clandestine organizations like the CIA and more accountability from government.
Whether 9/11 truthers are right or wrong, the very fact that government officials and agencies can withhold information from the public under the dubious banner of "national security" means we have to put far too much faith in our corrupt government officials and that is a very dangerous thing.
And also, whether 9/11 truthers are right or wrong, investigating 9/11 exposes you to the world of government sponsored terror which indisputably exists and is documented by the government and military's very own documents, it exposes you to the activities of clandestine organizations and the global dominance strategy of the US government and military. It opens up a whole new world view that is not conspiracy theory - it's well documented by official sources. It's just that these sources are not widely distribruted by our mainstream media.
But that's a journey you have to make on your own. Nobody can convey enough information in a forum post to convince you.
What is disturbing to me is how many people blindly trust the government as if the government really has the public's best interests at heart. How incredibly naive.
Maybe you are prepared to define for me what a "9-11 truther" is?
After all you must know, you used it as the title for your superb post, that clearly hinges on the definition...
Tell me what a 9-11 truther is
Tell me what a BTM'r is
then lets compare
If I'm reading this right Claire, in one statement you state that you don't really know what the goal of the "Truther" is, and on the other, you are suggesting that their goal isn't the same as the colelctive group of BTM... or are you suggesting that "if" the truther's goals aren't the same, then we should resist? Just looking for clarity in your post.
I had previously thought that "truther" referred to someone who just wanted more information about the events of 9-11, but I am now under the impression that truthers on the whole have already concluded that the US government planned and executed the attacks in order to justify going to war in Iraq. Please correct me if I am wrong about this, and I will use some other term to describe the people I am talking about, who have been promoting their US government conspiracy theory on this and other forums.
It seems to me that the truthers want to convince as many other people as they can that our government is indeed responsible for the attacks. It may be that some of them favor constitutionally limited government, but it's really hard to tell, given how focused they are on this particular message they want to get across.
Who are BTMers? Well, I would say that in general they share the views of libertarians like Ron Paul. They want to free markets and reduce the power of our government to within the limits imposed on it by our constitution. Because the mainstream media are doing a terrible job of getting these messages across to the American public, BTM is a very important educational resource.
Until now it hasn't been easy to get people to understand why limited government and free market capitalism are better than big government and socialism, because most people just haven't been that interested in economics. But I think that is about to change. I think that at this crucial point in our history our economic situation so dire that more and more people will be looking for real solutions. Many of them will come here for serious answers to their questions, and we must be credible and worthy of their trust if we are to accomplish anything of value.
I don't think we should promote 9-11 conspiracy theories here. We should discuss them if we like, but I think it it is best if there are a balance of opinions on the matter, and the "truthers" don't end up bullying everyone else. We must keep our focus on what we know for certain the government is doing wrong, and on the very real and proven solutions to this problem.
Who is a "9/11 Truther"?
Claire, I would say that every single person at BTM can be branded as such - in that I doubt that there is a single member who has fully accepted the "Official 9/11 Commission Report" of the events leading up to, surrounding, and following the 9/11 attacks.
Some people are zealous in their efforts, resorting to ad hominem attacks and some people are a little quieter in developing their opinion and beliefs about the events. I fall into that second category. I am skeptical of the report, and I do believe there are officials in the government that aren't taking as much heat for their roles in the events; but I am not ready to accuse anybody.
The facts of the building collapses and plane crashes can be contested strongly by either side of the fence, and is an endless debate. Things people believe they heard or saw that day could be misconstrued by the chaos that ensued. Video to purport one fact can be refuted by alternate angle video. There's just too much to support both sides to try to even debate that. Thats where seeking the truth comes into play.
As far as blaming... Well, I do believe somebody needs to be held to account and I am not 100% cnvinced that Bin Laden is the man exclusively for that job. That's where seeking of the truth comes into play.
The bottom line is that you are doing a grave injustice by dismissing the thoughts of someone who questions the official report of such a significant event like 9/11. You don't have to accept their opinions. You can choose to believe what you want to believe. (Isn't America great?) But, by suggesting that they should just shut up so as to not co-opt the credibility of a site that purports to expose the truth, when it is, in fact, all they are trying to do... well, that amounts to an ironic censorship in my opinion.
To miggy and the others who are fighting with Rick, and just tearing him down, consider this...
Rick has never once dismissed naything you stated. Go back and re-read what he wrote. If you presented factual evidence to support the theories you presented (regarding building collapses, plane crashes, etc), AND you presented factual evidence to support your claims that the government perpetrated such a heinous crime, then do you honestly believe Rick would seem so dismissive?!? Nobody (except maybe Scott) has said your theories are mythical and debunked absolutely. Tom (the skeptic) presented findings to argue against you, and you call him a Rick Wannabe, or something like that and don't even bother to continue your argument... It's not even good debate on your part. Name calling and dismissing criticism of your evidence really does nothing but drag down your own credibility and that of the evidence you provided at the onset. If you rationally debated, you'd gain more headway (as Rick stated before).
Ultimately, it doesn't make BTM look bad, but just you and the movements you support to find truth in the 9/11 events -- though I guess it can make BTM look bad in the sense that a visitor who hops smack in the middle of the debate might wonder why someone is calling out the owner of the site... Think and rationalize your debate, and you will win more debates... Use your opponents's arguments to further your own position. It isn't rocket science... it's debate 101.
(Sorry, I had to get all of that out after reading these posts)
>>"The bottom line is that you are doing a grave injustice by dismissing the thoughts of someone who questions the official report of such a significant event like 9/11."
It depends what those thoughts are. People seeking the truth can come to all kinds of erroneous conclusions. If the evidence doesn't support the conclusions, I am doing us a big favor by dismissing them.
Look, questioning the official report is not the problem. It's the unwarranted conclusions I reject, because I think it would indeed damage our credibility if BTM were officially to endorse the "US government did it" conspiracy in the absence of even a fraction of the hard evidence that would be required to support such a claim. If such evidence ever comes to light, perhaps as a result of renewed investigations, I'll be right on board with the "US government false flag" theory as well. Let me assure you that I have nothing against that theory other than the fact that it is currently too far-fetched to merit our endorsement.
...other than the fact that it is currently too far-fetched to merit our endorsement.
Who is "our" Claire? Are you back to the collective thought of those who are BTM members or are you concerned that someone spouting off conspiracy theories might wreck your own credibility? You don't need to censor anyone's opinion to save your own credibility. Like I said, debate it, but don't censor it. Right now, it seems too far fetched, but let's say that one word, one sentence, or even one second of a video clip these guys post sheds light onto something that nobdy recognized the importance of previously - and lends instant credibility to a theory... Well then, even one second of censorship could destroy every ounce of that effort made by someone seeking the truth. Isn't that exactly the opposite of what BTM claims it is trying to do? BTW, people like miggy aren't asking for an endorsement by BTM. Go back and re-read their posts... They are seeking validation for a truth they believe.
Alex Jones is a prime example with some of the stuff he says and posts on infowars.com. Many people are consumed ith debunking his stories with alternative information -- all in an effort to discredit him, and yet, his site gets millions of hits every year. Hits by his supporters, hits by his detractors, hits by the government (I wouldn't doubt that they'd want to keep an eye on his site)... and why? Because he's not against the idea of posting even the most seemingly outlandish stories in an effort to prove or disprove the truth as it is being reported versus what is reality.
All I'm saying Claire, is that you ride a fine line when you call for the censorship of ANY information on a website that claims to support the notion of exposing the truth... particularly when you are not an official spokesman for the site. It is your call for censorship that can bring discredit on the site moreso than what any "truther" might bring to the table. It's a slippery slope best left to people like Trevor and Rick.
and I think that it's SO relevant to this discussion. Yes, in the movie, the government has perpetrated the terrorist attack that helped the government close down the Great Britain of the movie. However, V is VERY clear about what the overall cause was. He says something to the effect of "oh, there are some people that are more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable" but that if the people REALLY wanted to know how they ended up with a society like that that they should "look into a mirror."
I could not agree more with that speech by V in the movie. There ARE people that are more responsible than others - a certain former male cheerleader comes to mind. However, we need to look into the mirror and realize that it was US that created the bulk of this police state. The motivation was fear, and not of terrorists or foreign armies. Over a period of decades, we have lost confidence in freedom, our fellow man, and ourselves. Instead of trusting in free markets to keep on delivering the prosperity that it already proved it could deliver, we react during a little downturn by asking the government to step in. To borrow from my post on another thread, we become hyenas, resorting to the collective use of force to take what we are afraid will not be given to us voluntarily in trade. After the government "solves" one problem, thereby creating three more, we then ask government to step in again, resorting to mob force again to solve all three problems, creating nine more, etc.
All of this comes from letting our animal fears and instincts rule our society instead of reason. We are afraid that free people will do something we won't like. Perhaps we are afraid that we don't have enough to offer to make our own way without using force to take what we are afraid we cannot earn. Perhaps we are afraid that without force, people will do things that we are afraid of - practice another religion, homosexuality, dress funny, wear their hair too long.
When we let go of our fear we find that none of these threats are real. I don't know if the government had a hand in 9/11 or not. I hope to god they didn't. They certainly jumped all over it, just like the government in the movie, to close down freedom after it happened. THe problem is, the great majority of people were already heading this way. We have to convince them to let go of their fear of TRUE freedom. When the great majority of people are on our side, even the armed forces can't stop us. In the movie, the armed forces stand down, which seems completely unrealistic. However, remember that Ron Paul got the most contributions from military during the presidential primary campaign. Remember that those videos of servicemen pounding on doors in New Orleans revealed something very encouraging - almost all of them said that they didn't like what they were doing. My good friend and neighbor came back from his tour in Iraq extremely disillusioned and now he's pissed at what he sees is going on.
Our soldiers are not "grunts" or automatons. When it is plainly obvious that the great majority of people are against this police state, I believe that they will not back it. However, as Hayek warned, the totalitarian state is the natural destination of the "road to serfdom" of socialism. We have to stop walking down that road. Once we do, the state loses all of its power over us. We won't have to blow up any buildings - all we will have to do is vote them out.
Tom Mullen
www.tommullen.net
www.myspace.com/skepticsongs
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson
I was asked to substantiate my claims about 9-11 repeatedly in this thread. I was told repeatedly that my evidence does not hold up to scrutiny and as of yet I have not presented any evidence or even arguments about the events of 9-11.
I will tread carefully because I do not wish to invoke yet another onslaught of abuse from Rick Williams and supporters.
Jane Asher, Rick Williams and Kurt Wallace will be the first to tell you that IndyInAsia did a show about 9-11. He did mention the event for a good 10 minutes a few days ago, I was there to see it so hold back on the criticism guys, 9-11 has been dealt with.
Anyway during his show he encouraged viewers to watch a documentary called Improbable Collapse - Demolition of our republic.
I would also like people to watch this documentary about the alleged gravity collapse of the 3 sky scrapers that pulverised to dust on that ill-fated day.
The documentary has always been the only real video about 9-11 that I encourage people to study and scrutinise as those close to me already know and appreciate why, but for your benefit it is because it stops short of speculation, instead they take a scientific approach and Analise data, samples and the likes that was collected on the day and the following days, weeks and even months.
I am not sure if the documentary is in keeping with the 9-11 truthers that are being so vigorously attacked here but Rick Williams definitions of 9-11 truthers do not fit the bill for these guys, actually the attitude of the presenters, Steven Jones for example is commendable. They tackle a very serious issue with decency and honesty in my opinion and their manner is very accommodating and polite.
Actually their attitude is in keeping with everybody I know who has realised the many errors in the 9-11 commission report, fema report and of course the NIST report.
I think the documentary certainly makes a good case for a further investigation into 9-11.
and I certainly encourage everybody to take a look.
http://www.4allofus.com/tv Improbable Collapse is featured On-Demand.
I finish the day with a heavy heart, so much good could have come from our efforts to build bridges between BTM and everyone else who actually want to "Break The Matrix" but sadly BTM, or should I say Rick Williams has decided to deny this opportunity by branding everybody as 9-11 truthers, embrace the Zionist enemy of everyone else and close the door in our collective faces.
I said BTM and everyone else because lets not forget BTM is not the Freedom Movement, they just claim to be.
As for everyone else, maybe when Rick Williams has resigned we can find a way to try again with the Bridge Building exercise we had rejected by the problematic Rick Williams.
I look forward to that day, the sooner he is gone the better. Unity, at the end of the day is key.
Maybe if we all UNIFY and call for his resignation that will show BTM that us, everybody elsers are capable of unifying. Who knows maybe the real freedom movement, the Ron Paul supporters and the so-called libertarians will consider BTM to be a more viable then too.
Whether BTM is the vehicle or not, which I very doubtful of actually but at some point everybody else need to come together, whether you call yourself, or are called a 9-11 truther or not, a freedom lover or not, etc etc
Do not be put off from discussing 9-11 simply because a few ignorant people like Rick Williams have more concern with a crumbling image than your opinion because countless millions do appreciate your efforts.
Rick Williams for the benefit of BTM, the Freedom Movement and humanity as a whole you should resign with haste. Do the right thing at least once this week for goodness sake.
I hope when they accept your resignation letter you regret your bare faced lie "That MattG is running around telling everybody that he is going to get even". You never did say what I was supposed to be getting even for.
Maybe you will regret embracing Zionism in the same article as patronising millions of investigator types who have studied 9-11.
Maybe you will regret slamming the door in the faces of some of your biggest supporters (The 4ALLofUS Team) and maybe you will regret the impeccable timing of this thread, the day after our maiden show and maybe you will regret resorting to mainstream media style slander, ridicule and name calling tactics in this thread. In direct conflict of the ideals of BTM.
I reiterate;
Do the right thing for the first time this week and resign Rick Williams
Resign now for the benefit of all these wonderful people who you are dragging down with you.
Resign.
Oddly enough, as I've been reading and absorbing all this, I realize like all centralized groups, BTM is only defined by those who work it and those drawn to it, whether in conflict or agreement. Some appear to be driven by ego, some just collecing their pay. That's fine, we're all given 15 minutes in life to state our case, then it's time to pick up our marbles and go home. If we disagree, fine, if we agree, better, we're at least talking it out, but if we only try to reason with reasonable people, well...we're talking to ourselves.
I enbrace dialogue with Scott here because like most of us, 9-11 is still an angry enraging yet sorrowful chasm in our collective souls. People need to talk, and keep talking.
Crime and its proofs? I know the crime, I'm collecting the proofs, and with enough like-minded folk, the criminals will be held to the flame.
Thanks Scott, your point is well-taken. But just for argument's sake, you're assuming the shooting videotape is unaltered, hasn't been tapered with, and that's dangerous no matter how many "unrelated people" present the same thing. Off the point maybe since 9-11 tapes can't be argued with as to what we see, but what *are* we really seeing? Certainly not what may be covert facts about what happened *before* the crash, what may've been put in place so events would occur just as they did. I really don't know, Scott, I'm still making up my mind - so I'm searching for what I may not ever be able to get: the real truth.
And I'm sure you have a fine mind :-)
Scott, may I respond to your "if there's no proof there's no crime" theory? If I come home to find an obviously shot-through-the-head corpse in my apartment, I know a crime's been committed, have no proof who or how or why, but murder is crime, yes? So - for the subject at hand, the crime is what happened 9-11, the proof of what we believe actually happened is what we must collect, I'd say.
Just curious. Thank you.
I think your talents such as logical thinking are probably better invested elsewhere, not saying off of BTM, more the people you are trying to reason with.
Agreed, Cathrin. But if I come home to find an obviously shot-through-the-head corpse in my apartment, and a bunch of unrelated people have videotape of a guy shooting someone in the head in my apartment, and the guy on the tape admits - and is proud of the fact - that he did it, I don't throw all that out and insist that hundreds of other people are the real killers.
But that me - I'm simple-minded that way.
"Are all police investigations based on proof of a crime? No, they're not. An incident will be investigated to determine whether or not a crime has been committed. Therefore, seeking truth and justice and understanding of what happened in said situation. But that is beside the point also."
By all means seek the truth. But just as police do not accuse anyone of a crime if they have no evidence or "proof", so to "truthers" must not make accusations they do not possess proof of.
I hear accusations that include all sorts of unsavory characters, but I see no proof. If you have no proof, you have no crime.
If that isn't obvious, then I can't elevate your thinking for you.
By all means seek the truth. But just as police do not accuse anyone of a crime if they have no evidence or "proof", so to "truthers" must not make accusations they do not possess proof of.
Respectfully Scott, I can think of a half-dozen cases this week right off the top of my head where the police accuse people of crimes without evidence or proof (just in my area alone)... Proof is not a pre-requisite for accusations... it's used to substantiate the claims. You're argument here is weak, at best.
I'm playing devil's advocate here... I'm no "Truther", but I do question the official report. I think I'm more of one of those people who are trying to determine what it is I want to believe from the events surrounding 9/11. What's the play? What's the endgame?
and then read my posts.
Giving us your wonderful insight into the criminal justice system in no way addresses the concerns raised by me in this thread.
It is obvious to me that you (Scott from Oragon), GI Jew and Rick Williams have no intention of addressing the criticism, instead you have decided to attempt to slander and distract.
Every impartial observer will see for themselves how you 3 have adopted the type of tactics used in the mainstream media. Ridicule, slander, name calling and avoidance of the issues posed.
"BreakTheMatrix" might have a case to answer for false advertising, but after the dust settles I doubt there will be anything left so nobody will care.
I am actually amazed that you guys can be so wreckless. every word you write is open for review and I can assure you the picture you are painting is not very pleasant at all.
I am confident that I have in no way compromised myself, my ideals or my character by participating in this discussion and I am equally confident that the same can not be said about the 3 of you.
I suggest you cut your losses now because as far as I can see the damage is all but irreverrsable already.
"It is obvious to me that you (Scott from Oragon), GI Jew and Rick Williams have no intention of addressing the criticism, instead you have decided to attempt to slander and distract."
Yes! It's a conspiracy!! Finally, someone pierces the veil!! Kudos to you, my friend - and kudos again!!
Courage.
to make the point that you are not worth of my time.
Do you even know what you are defending?
Do you even care?
I will not be wasting any more of my time seeking a rebuttal from you because clearly you have nothing of value to say. I shall simply dismiss your every word without recourse.
Good luck with the attitude and your quest for yet more enemies. I do hope you learn to be more respectfull to people who don't share your opinion. BTM would surely have a better member then.
No proof? What the hell are you on about? We're not just pulling this stuff out of our asses! We are analyzing the available evidence and presenting the best hypothesis that matches that evidence.
What kind of proof would satisfy you sir? What kind of proof do we need to see that the official version of events is obviously FALSE?
What do you make of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPjOi2dQSM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRaKHq2dfCI
The very clear video of a controlled demolition accompanied by the very clear testimony of the survivors describing the explosions in those buildings is enough proof for most free thinking people to realize that there is something very wrong with the official narrative. But there is so much more proof, evidence, anomolies or whatever the hell you want to call it that others have alread presented on this website.
And you keep asking for more proof? Proof please? Prove to me that the sky is blue! Prove to me that when I drop a rubber ball it will bounce off the ground!
You people are ridiculous!
You keep restating everything we already have seen or read.. What is your point? What is your goal? What is your end game? Posting the same websites and videos isn't informing or changing anyone's mind.
Let me try something different... What if I told you I agree with 70-80% of what you say...
Where do we go from here? Am I supposed to bring all this evidence to my congressman or senator?
And them call em a moron when they don't agree with me...
That's OK.. Leiberman already disagrees with 100% of everything I have ever written him about..
Dodd and Delauro never respond.. so I'm never sure where they stand..
Now please, you have so much to say and post with respect to this issue surely you must have a goal beyond informing...
Lets hear it
Rick -
There's nothing new, or particularly interesting, about the "Truther" movement, except they like to throw around phrases from a movie as if they have any bearing on what they're actually talking about.
What they're really about is feeling good about themselves, because they are the select superior few who have knowledge and understanding that the majority do not. It's the classic mindset of the conspiracy theorist, and while it's damn entertaining in movies and books, it's actually pretty boring in real life.
The mistake lies in taking them seriously and/or attempting to engage them in logical argument. They say, "Fire can't melt steel." You say, "It didn't melt it - it caused it to lose enough of its structural strength so that the towers could collapse." They say, "But fire can't melt steel." Et cetera, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
It'd be funny, except that it's sad.
No movement that takes these people seriously or treats them with respect will ever itself be taken seriously or treated with respect. Nor should it be.
Gotta run - maybe later I'll tell you how I really feel about 'em. Meanwhile, I'm already late for this week's ZOG meeting!!
What respect do you have for yourself, you are calling the liar by his first name as if you are his friend so I will presume you too are not a man of integrity.
It saddens me to see you and Rick bringing down such a wonderful movement.
If BTM are really seeking what they claim to be seeking the first thing they should do is demand Rick's resignation.
I will never accept deformation of my character and I will never turn a blind eye to incompetence, lies, deceit or propaganda.
Resignation to me is the only way I can see BTM ever clawing itself out of the hole it has allowed Rick Williams to dig.
I guess I should have said "Mr. Williams."
Lesson learned - sorry about that, 4!
PS - sorry to hear that your character has been deformed - good luck with that!! Perhaps there's a salve, or some type of topical ointment, that can help? I will do some research and get back to you!!
That Liar, Mr Rick Williams... or maybe I should spell his name in CAPS and refer to the corporate him... MR RICK WILLIAMS
The guy who went live on BTM and said
"That MattG is running around telling everybody that he is going to get even"
The same guy who has continued to add insult to injury with his lies, chastisement, name-calling and slander and the same guy who has not responded to any of my concerns or criticisms.
You got it right, the liar Rick Williams.
It did not take a lot of brain power to determine who I was referring to though did it? We might all have a difference of opinion but from what I can see the only liar is Mr Rick Williams.
His resignation will go some way towards repairing the damage he has done to the positive relations between 4ALLofUS and BTM.
Maybe Rick does not value our partnership, maybe BTM do not either, but 4ALLofUS did.
Is that the best you can do.
I have been very clear what my concerns have been and not one has been addressed by Rick, furthermore unfounded, outlandish and completely false allegations have been presented to me by Rick and others in this thread, the live shows and the the live chats.
I have been accused wrongly and the only rebuttal I get is about a typing error.
Typical.
It's not that it's the best I can do. It's that it's the best that you deserve!!
:)