Jesus Camp

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Documentary film about ultra-conservative christians throughout the United States.

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Created 19 weeks 4 days ago
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WHY?

Why do I never see anything about radical Muslims, rabid Jehova's Witnesses, or any other religion?

While I do not agree with many of the things nor how they are done, I am not going to deny these people have a rght to feel as they do and do as they do. Every Amrican has the right to freedom. Not just to have freedom if it does not offend someone.

As a Christian myself, I find many of the things to be what even Christians would point out as being non-biblical (For example - praying for a bowling ball to hit a pin) On the other hand, why can they not educate their children as they see fit? Is it wrong to believe in intellgent design or do we all have to agree in the big bang? Even evolutionists agree that their theory is unprovable and now defer to the spermian theory of a comet containing life forms seeded the earth rather than the primordial soup theory. Is this not a religion in and of itself? Either way it takes faith to believe it.

In all, I hope that this network decides to not air this kind of thing. Tell me why I should be subsidizing ethanol production which uses more fuel to make than it delivers and it also increases overall greenhouse gas emissions. That is more useful to me than bashing Christians.

psujim85 Posted by psujim85 on Thu, 05/29/2008 - 01:33
I see your point

but if you never see anything about radical Muslims then you haven't scrolled through the home page of BTM or looked in any newspaper recently (read last 10 years) or turned on the television.

But everything else you said........

AdamAdamR Posted by AdamAdamR on Thu, 05/29/2008 - 02:26
Radicals

I used that as an example - sorry I should have used an analogy of the American Atheists.

The whole idea of showing biased films on this network is missing the mark as far as I am concerned.

psujim85 Posted by psujim85 on Sat, 05/31/2008 - 22:17
Jesus Camp

I saw this movie when it first came out - have you all really wathed the ENTIRE movie? For people who have "woken up" I'm pretty surprised that you can't smell the propaganda. This is a total hit piece on "conservative Christians" by NWO minions. That little kid who paces on that log thinking about what he's going to do that night is an ACTOR. This is all totally bought and paid for, just like Hagee and Wright, etc. Please do not believe everything you see just because it has an "underground" feel to it! Thank you Patriots!

Posted by DrNeo on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 19:02
If those

kids are actors... Give em all a friggin Oscar...
No way dude, ain't buyin that.

Ken Posted by Ken on Wed, 05/28/2008 - 22:49
you're an ACTOR. right

you're an ACTOR.
right right, we won't believe anything we see, we'll instead believe you.

awesomo5000 Posted by awesomo5000 on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 19:26
Sorry man!

Whoa, calm down man - infighting is the last thing we need. Didn't mean to offend you. You're right; don't believe me. Watch the whole movie and see what I'm saying.

Posted by DrNeo on Mon, 05/26/2008 - 01:41
there is no infighting,

there is no infighting, there is just heated debate. nothing wrong with that. i don't know why you think i'm upset. i don't get upset.
i watched the whole movie and i still have no reason to believe you. you could try to persuade me by citing respectable sources for your claims. i'm easily persuaded that way.

awesomo5000 Posted by awesomo5000 on Mon, 05/26/2008 - 01:55
I think that parents should

I think that parents should have the right to bring there children up as they see fit as long as they aren't being abused or there personal rights aren't being violated. That being said, their seems to be no apparent abuse, although one could argue that this movie portrays an element of a cult-like behavior. These children aren't questioning anything....they are blindly following there leader. One could also argue that this type of education is why we are in the current state we are in. I personally think that withholding pertinent information from the masses in order to make an educational and logical decision, is abuse. So, seeing that we are bringing up followers, it makes perfect sense that people have learned not to ask "why". LMW

orchid0270 Posted by orchid0270 on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 16:23
Children believe everything they're told

Until a certain age, all children believe everything they are told. That means that there is more chance that you will be like your parents if you grew up with them. This is humanity. No reason to try to stop the natural upbringing of children. When a child reaches the teenage years, there is a natural questioning that happens. This can lead to the eyes being opened in the case of them being taught error. But some of the things our parents teach us are actually true, hopefully in testing those truths we will stay with them.

These days the truth is in short supply!

kyotheobald Posted by kyotheobald on Wed, 05/28/2008 - 21:13
Freaky

Someone should remind that woman in the video that gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins.

Ken Posted by Ken on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 13:58
ouch

!

AdamAdamR Posted by AdamAdamR on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 14:05
As much as this movie is an

As much as this movie is an indictment of some very sick and immoral beliefs, it doesn't belong in the Matrix queue...

So many people want to input religion into political discourse, citing the bible, for example, as a reason to vote toward or away from something. There are those who even make the ludicrous statement that a Ron Paul presidency is what "god" wants. Mike Huckabee made his platform about religion and promised his followers a religious presidency and a move back to the fictitious teachings of the bible.

Mitt Romney stood up and stated that it doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you believe some ridiculously godly thing and are "faithful". Look how many people voted for him because he was a Mormon in Utah and Nevada...

Irrational beliefs have been the bane of human societies since the inception of societies. At some point, as was profoundly understood by those that wrote the founding documents for this country, those beliefs need to be completely removed from the political arena. (Sure, lie to your kids at home all you want; just don't call it "moral".)

Showcasing a movie- even though it indicts religion and shows it for what it is-- just invites it too prominantly into the discussion where it never should have been welcome to begin with.

What is BTM selling, anyway? What goods will be set down on the table?

Scott from Oregon Posted by Scott from Oregon on Sat, 05/24/2008 - 21:35
I strongly oppose broadcasting Jesus Camp

"Anyhow, for a balanced view, the producers should've interspersed some clips of 12 year old kids singing along at a hip-hop show to lyrics about murder and sexual acrobatics."

I agree with AdamAdamR. This was a very biased and poorly produced movie. This film to me was something you would see broadcasted by mass media today to create intolerance of others beliefs. It's interesting that people are regressing back to pre-constitution ideas of NOT believing people should be able to worship "how where and what they may"

Why do people care if a parent wants to home school their kids. They have every right to be their childs main influence and teacher instead of the state.

To me BTM is about Freedom, truth and hope and optimism. I don't see where this broadcast supports any of this. It merely supports some peoples opinion and perception

What happened to people leading by example instead of force and intolerance. I to am Christian and believe in doing unto others as you would have them do unto you regardless if they think differently

To echo Ether 8-24

"I think that there is other programming that would be more appropriate to engender the positive message that BTM promises to bring to us. I vote against "Jesus Camp" due to its extremely divisive nature. There is little common ground in that movie that all freedom-lovers can agree on."

leadbyexample Posted by leadbyexample on Sat, 05/24/2008 - 20:36
Exactly

Thank you Julie - as you said "This film to me was something you would see broadcasted by mass media today to create intolerance of others beliefs. It's interesting that people are regressing back to pre-constitution ideas of NOT believing people should be able to worship "how where and what they may" "

That was exactly why this movie was made.

Posted by DrNeo on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 19:05
the movie was made to show

the movie was made to show outsiders what a jesus camp looks like inside?
i can't imagine how they could make it look good even if they tried.
a cult is a scary thing no matter what it worships.
these delusional people are influencing politics in a major way, which is the relevance that this movie has to this movement.
i strongly suggest that this be included in the final queue.

awesomo5000 Posted by awesomo5000 on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 19:19
In all fairness to the woman at the center of this movie

She makes perfect sense. She believes the "other side" indoctrinates their kids, and Muslims indoctrinate their kids so she's trying to combat this. She doesn't claim to be a prophet or a divine messenger or anything. She pretty much explains that religion is the most important thing in her life and that she wants to pass this on in a country that is not supporting all of her beliefs.

She was perfectly calm and rational when she called in to the talk show. I don't support her politicizing religion but she gives a valid reason for it.

I still don't support using kids as little soldiers in a culture war.

Anyhow, for a balanced view, the producers should've interspersed some clips of 12 year old kids singing along at a hip-hop show to lyrics about murder and sexual acrobatics.

AdamAdamR Posted by AdamAdamR on Sat, 05/24/2008 - 13:15
a bit of a stretch there

you first try to rationalize what is being done to these kids by the woman's explanation. you then say the rationalization makes perfect sense and they're 'valid reasons' but you don't agree with it. if it makes perfect sense why do you not agree with it?

as for the balanced view you claim should be created. there's nothing balanced about your proposal. here, on one hand we have children being brain washed (and let's not argue about that term, they do pray to a life size bush cutout). on the other hand, your proposition, to show kids voluntarily enjoying music filled with vulgar lyrics. how does one relate to the other?

awesomo5000 Posted by awesomo5000 on Sat, 05/24/2008 - 16:27
"voluntary"

well, I didn't see anyone forcing the kids to do it --- no more than an MC forces people to "put their hands in the air, and wave em like they just don't care"

word.

AdamAdamR Posted by AdamAdamR on Sat, 05/24/2008 - 21:22
Neocons are bad, Christians are not

I consider myself an ultra-Conservative Christian and I'm all for BTM. I've been a friend to the message of Ron Paul since I met him at an Eagle Forum Collegians event in 2001.

I've only made it 45 minutes into "Jesus Camp," but I disagree with the presentation of much of what I've seen so far. So far, teaching children about Christ is framed as sinister, and homeschooling is branded as dangerous. This type of anti-Christian framing is problematic in the context of the history American political thought, and even to our organic documents like the Declaration of Independence. I think it is entirely American to allow people the freedom to worship "how, where, and what they may" and for parents to raise children up in what they believe to be true. That is what American freedom is all about.

I'm Mormon, and a staunch believer in Christ, and I also intend on homeschooling my children to keep them out of the secular-humanist, anti-freedom, earth-worshiping, socialist-indoctrination-mill public schools. I think that the open earth, human and government worshiping promoted in our government schools is a massive problem in America today. In California they are on the cusp of taking away the freedom of not having to attend a school system that promotes these objects of worship, though a student may not agree with the teaching of such religious tenets in the public classroom. This movie ridicules that type of freedom. How is that going to contribute to BTM's positive message of freedom and prosperity?

By showing this film you might be pushing many freedom-loving Christians and home schoolers, like me, away from BTM--even though we may generally agree with you that neoconservative religious dogma is not Christianity at all; that preemptive war is entirely evil; that there is a conspiracy to enslave the free people of the world through a new world order.

I think that there is other programming that would be more appropriate to engender the positive message that BTM promises to bring to us. I vote against "Jesus Camp" due to its extremely divisive nature. There is little common ground in that movie that all freedom-lovers can agree on.

-Ether 8-24

"[If a man] makes his vices public, though they be such as seem principally to affect himself, (as drunkenness, or the like) they then become, by the bad example they set, of pernicious effects to society; and therefore it is then the business of human laws to correct them. Here the circumstance of publication is what alters the nature of the case."
-William Blackstone

Ether 8-24 Posted by Ether 8-24 on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 20:53
> I've only made it 45

> I've only made it 45 minutes into "Jesus Camp,"

did you happen to catch the bit where the children are encouraged to worship a life size picture of the president? i'd love to hear your take on that and how the producers sensationalized that scene with sneaky music and camera work. that scene is around the 50 minute mark if you care to give it another shot.

awesomo5000 Posted by awesomo5000 on Sat, 05/24/2008 - 04:10
I actually watched the entire movie, and would encourage

anyone who comments to do the same. Here are some of my thoughts I jotted down while I watched. I think they'd be hard to pigeonhole:

.......

I think young children often repeat what the adults around them say, however
The young boy in this movie seems wise and thoughtful beyond his years

A paraphrase with a twist,
“the devil goes after the young” that’s why we’re going after you

the atheists have better looking cover girls

the girl who stars in this movie ought contact a lawyer when she turns 18 and sue the producers for exploitation

why the spooky music when the young boy gives his sermon?

There’s something dishonest and manipulative about lecturing on the evils of government to children

The music soundtrack is totally biased!!!

Blessing the president? Why replace one political indoctrination (public school) with another. Politics and Religion don’t mix well! I long for the separation of Church and State!

The little girl screaming “no more” may be asking for an end to the group ritual she’s partaking in

Wow, Ted Haggard came across as really cynical to the kid. He’s such a charlatan.

Favorite quote: “The word learn is different from indoctrinate.” - Mike Papantonio

It wouldn't be hard to guess the bias of the producers of this movie

AdamAdamR Posted by AdamAdamR on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 18:46
I agree with your

first sentence, Does Christianity need an enemy to grow and spread its message? I would hope not.

BTW I'm still watching the movie and taking some notes ... not finished yet :)

AdamAdamR Posted by AdamAdamR on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 18:12
Forget suicidal murderous

Forget suicidal murderous Jihad Joes! We've got Jesus freaks out there nagging us to love one another! We've got to stop them! Besides, they make me very uncomfortable because I don't like the idea of being accountable to a Creator when I die!

Freedom Posted by Freedom on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 18:08
What if

You find out that YOU are the Creator? :)

Tom Mullen

www.tommullen.net
www.myspace.com/skepticsongs

Tom Mullen Posted by Tom Mullen on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 18:23
dude!

you just blew my mind. stop doing that.
this guy you commented on, he sounds like he's angry about the movie, i think he might pull a frank soon. :)

awesomo5000 Posted by awesomo5000 on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 18:30
I dont want to be starting any

conspiracies or anything. But doesn't that dude bear a striking resemblance to Anreas Strassmeir?

Ken Posted by Ken on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 19:21
Sure, yeah

Anreas Strassmeir.... that guy from..... er.... who??

AdamAdamR Posted by AdamAdamR on Sat, 05/24/2008 - 03:49
OKC bombing

Andreas Strassmeir was an agent provocateur.

Andreas Carl Strassmeir- is the son of Guenter Strassmeir. Guenter Strassmeir is a close friend, and was Cheif of Staff to past right wing German Chancellor Helmut Kohl. Guenter Strassmeir is considered the architect of German Reunification.

Andreas Strassmeir helped with purchase negotiations for 747 aircraft.
He was supposedly cleared by federal authorities in connection with the OKC bombing.
Through his attorney Kirk Lyons, he states that he only briefly met Timothy McVeigh at a gun show.

The dude a couple posts up "Freedom" reminded me off him

Ken Posted by Ken on Sat, 05/24/2008 - 12:43
Ok Ken

You can get back in your flying saucer now

AdamAdamR Posted by AdamAdamR on Sat, 05/24/2008 - 13:04
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