I WAS SMOKING WEED WHEN I REALIZED...
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Notwithstanding the latest wall street crisis, the most burning issue for me is health care/insurance reform. The apathetic mantra goes: health insurance is for the healthy - and many doctors and citizens say it as though it were a joke - it isn't. The hold these companies have on washington is obvious in the blatant way they deny substantiated claims - the government agencies designed to protect citizens from these practices are servants , not to their constituents, but to the insurance companies.
The wall street mess speaks for itself - and tell me, who didn't see this coming, at a minimum, five years ago?
Instead of an internet debate - how about trying to raise enough money to buy prime air time and televise a third party debate (inviting the republicrat candidates to join) on a major network? I think that together we could make it happen.
Hope springs eternal.
The money needs to be raised to buy prime air time on the television networks. Let us figure out a way for the Republicans and Democrats, the two major parties, to support their collective civic duty by paying for the 3rd party access.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.......Thomas Jefferson
The point of Break the Matrix is to create our own space independent of the mainstream media. If we go crawling to them to host the debate, it only strengthens the stranglehold we are trying to break.
Also, the Repubs and Dems are private parties. They have no obligation or "civic duty" to anyone nor would I want them to.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.......Thomas Jefferson
My God, if we decriminalized marijuana what would all those little local county and state police agencies do for money? All of the police, jailors, magistrates, judges, attorneys would not be able to profit and extract money from the US taxpayer, thus ending up out here on the streets. That would be just awful...
Johnny gets busted smoking a joint.
Officer Butsis makes his quota.
Gasoline in the cruiser.
Sally does the paperwork.
Big Joe locks up the cell.
Marg & Barbara do the jail cooking and laundry.
Billy Bail Bonds makes 10%.
Judge Fudge does his gig.
Court appointed attorney is able to pay his rent.
Prosecutor and Secretary go out to lunch.
Illegal search & seizure threatens- plea deal is made.
$1250.00 fine for parking + court costs.
Everybody goes to the bar and gets drunk.
God Bless America.
Just Say Know!
I completely agree with the premise of this short video: marijuana legalization. I do not, however, agree with any kind of government regulation, control, or licensing for it. Just as I don't agree with those things as applied to alcohol, tobacco, or basically anything else.
--Aaron
The Militant Libertarian
http://www.MilitantLibertarian.org
I don't understand either why this plant is illegal? It's utterly ridiculous.
The illegal marijuana business is very profitable. If marijuana was legalized that business would collapse. So people involved in the illegal drug trade would go out of business. My guess is that those people have influence in government and convince our elected officials to keep it illegal. Maybe they are our elected officials.
Not to mention, if they give in on Marijuana, they'll have opened the door to this "gateway drug" and the whole idea of total legalization. If they give in on Mary Jane, they might be expected to give in on heroine, coke, PCP, and all the rest too!
--Aaron
The Militant Libertarian
http://www.MilitantLibertarian.org
We will just have to agree to disagee on this topic.
... hear your arguments on this one?
-Miss Green
"Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it."
There are many reasons which I don't care to waste my time responding to. The best reason is the same ones related to alcohol . We don't need a bunch of stoners driving on the roads endangering other drivers.
The THC level in today's pot that is grown hydroponically is 10 times the potency of pot grown in the 60's.
I'm sure you'll go find some articles posted to the contrary. What really gets my goat the most about this is this site being used to promote it.
If it's ONLY intended use was for someone who was dying to help them bear the trama then I might agree to it's medical use ...Or hemp for other industrial uses ...But just to legalize it so you can go get stoned......sorry !
So we should make alcohol illegal too? What about air bags? Those kill people. Hey, so do guns! What about immunization shots--those have a chance of killing someone. Don't forget cat poop. That stuff kills the babies of expectant mothers. Oh, wait, I almost forgot donkeys. Hundreds of people are killed by them every year.
Ya, your argument makes total sense. :/
--Aaron
The Militant Libertarian
http://www.MilitantLibertarian.org
No one has ever died from cannabis, irregardless of the "THC potency"- which is only a direct result of selective breeding- not genetic modification, by the way. Imagine trying to tell me that the heirloom tomatoes I've been eating are "too potent" and "dangerous"... Either way, I don't see how you can compare a harmless plant to a toxic chemical that kills thousands of people per year.
But back to your main argument, do you think that alcohol should be made illegal then?
As for a bunch of "stoners" driving around vs. drunk drivers:
(http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5450)
It is well established that alcohol increases accident risk. Evidence of marijuana’s culpability in on-road driving accidents is much less convincing.
Although cannabis intoxication has been shown to mildly impair psychomotor skills, this impairment does not appear to be severe or long lasting. In driving simulator tests, this impairment is typically manifested by subjects decreasing their driving speed and requiring greater time to respond to emergency situations.
Nevertheless, this impairment does not appear to play a significant role in on-road traffic accidents. A 2002 review of seven separate studies involving 7,934 drivers reported, “Crash culpability studies have failed to demonstrate that drivers with cannabinoids in the blood are significantly more likely than drug-free drivers to be culpable in road crashes.” This result is likely because subject under the influence of marijuana are aware of their impairment and compensate for it accordingly, such as by slowing down and by focusing their attention when they know a response will be required. This reaction is just the opposite of that exhibited by drivers under the influence of alcohol, who tend to drive in a more risky manner proportional to their intoxication.
Today, a large body of research exists exploring the impact of marijuana on psychomotor skills and actual driving performance. This research consists of driving simulator studies, on-road performance studies, crash culpability studies, and summary reviews of the existing evidence. To date, the result of this research is fairly consistent: Marijuana has a measurable yet relatively mild effect on psychomotor skills, yet it does not appear to play a significant role in vehicle crashes, particularly when compared to alcohol. Below is a summary of some of the existing data. (Go here to view summaries: http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5450)
Also, here:
http://www.ccguide.org.uk/driving.php
STUDIES had found it impossible to prove cannabis adversely affected driving, an Adelaide University researcher said yesterday.
Professor Jack Maclean, director of the road accident research unit, said, while there was no doubt alcohol affected driving adversely, that was not the case with marijuana.
"It has been impossible to prove marijuana affects driving adversely," he told the Australian Driver Fatigue Conference in Sydney.
"There is no doubt marijuana affects performance but it may be it affects it in a favourable way by reducing risk-taking."
Professor Maclean said a study of blood samples taken by SA hospitals from people injured in road accidents found marijuana was the second most common drug, after alcohol, in the bloodstream.
Those with marijuana in their blood, however, were at fault in less than half of the accidents.
"Alcohol was by far the most common drug and 80 per cent of those with alcohol on board were judged to be responsible (for accidents)," he said.
"The next most common drug, but much less, was marijuana and about 48 per cent of the people with marijuana were judged to have been responsible for their crash."
He said the lack of proof that marijuana was detrimental to driving was not because of a lack of effort by researchers.
"I can say that there are some quite distinguished researchers who are going through incredible contortions to try and prove that marijuana has to be a problem," he said.
Professor Maclean said some researchers also found the risk of crashing while driving at the speed limit in a metropolitan area actually decreased if a driver had been drinking but was under the 0.05 blood alcohol limit.
"Perhaps for some people one or two glasses of alcohol may steady them down," he said.
As speed and alcohol concentration rose, however, the risk of accidents rose exponentially.
-Miss Green
"Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it."
the gang land killing all ever the place have nothing to do with pot and the use of pot?
At some point, people have to realize that gangs sell drugs for profit. Drugs are highly expensive because they are illegal. The users subsidize the risk dealers take by paying higher prices. If there were no profits to be made, there would be no "turf" to defend. Nor would drug dealers rob/kill other drug dealers for $.
Of course, the drugs that most involve violence do not generally include cannabis. Its cocaine (and its derivative crack) heroin and meth. But thats a different story altogether, although the same principle (legalization would take profits out of dealers hands) would apply.
Al Capone didnt have people killed because he was a psycho murderer like Ted Bundy. He was eliminating his blackmarket competition. He was protecting his profits. And the fact that profits were large enough that the prospect that innocent people might also be killed didn't seem to bother anyone. Just like today.
Prohibition AS A POLICY cannot work and has never worked throughout history. Prostitution is the best historical example of this fact, but i think prohibition of alcohol is actually the closest analogy to the criminalization of cannabis since both have high demand (lots of users) and both can be made/grown by people on their own. More harm is caused by cannabis' legal status than its actual use. And that goes for contributing to crime on the street which is directly related to $$$$$$ which prohibition ensures will always be there. I blame prohibition for the violence because there is a simple way to put those thugs out of business for good.
Legalize.
But you know if we want to keep living in a dream world where if we just put enough people in jail drug use will stop and ghettos will magically turn into suburban subdivisions... just keep up the tired old failed rhetoric and failed policies. Its not like billions of dollars and millions of lives are at stake or anything.
Thank you Windy. :)
-Miss Green
"Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it."
>No one has ever died from cannabis, irregardless of the "THC potency"- which is only a direct result of selective breeding- not genetic modification, by the way. Imagine trying to tell me that the heirloom tomatoes I've been eating are "too potent" and "dangerous"... Either way, I don't see how you can compare a harmless plant to a toxic chemical that kills thousands of people per year.<
The potency of THC in todays cannabis isn't "selective breediing" but is the direct result of chemical modification to increase the THC content. Why do you think they grow "hydro"? You comparing tomatoes to dope is really sad Miss Green. I will however give you an E for effort.
Also even you and your Ab NORMAL article admit that cannabis effects motor skills, which in turn effects the reaction times that those under it's influance have , which could increase accidents on the road and also in the work place.
This doesn't even go into the loss of motivation which individuals become accustom to from being a pothead.
If it was legalized they'd have even more "research" into it's effects then Ab NORMALS.
As I've stated before, a person having a "proven" medical condition would be one thing but those who love their beloved cannabis as a means of recreational "loss of reality" are those (like yourself) who are lobbying the hardest for it, to which I find distasteful.
No matter the number of articles you post because of your love of psychoinduced loss of reality, will not convince me to ever give a yea in it's legalization.
Oh I almost forgot to answer the question you posted about alcohol.
But back to your main argument, do you think that alcohol should be made illegal then?
Actually I do , but that will never happen either....I've seen both destroy the lives of many people !
>>"But back to your main argument, do you think that alcohol should be made illegal then?
Actually I do , but that will never happen either....I've seen both destroy the lives of many people !"
So you think the state should protect people from themselves? Aside from it being authoritarian and anti-freedom, don't you think that kind of state involvement undermines people's sense or individual responsibility? Thinking the government is watching over us all the time is the CAUSE of the problem of habitual drug use, not the solution. If there were no government entitlements to prevent aimless stoners and irresponsible drunks from experiencing the consequences of their lifestyles, I think there would be far fewer aimless stoners and irresponsible drunks. If there were no Medicare or regulations requiring hospitals to treat anyone who walks in the door, people would take much better care of their bodies. If we want this to be a healthy society again, we need to reduce the size and scope of government. We need to give people back responsibility for their own lives.
Don't put words in my mouth. The law protects all of us from others not being responsible.
>don't you think that kind of state involvement undermines people's sense or individual responsibility?<
Some don't have any sence , nor are they responsible . And no I wouldn't consider it anti-freedom at all because freedom is within the law not outside the law.
Thinking the government is watching over us all the time is the CAUSE of the problem of habitual drug use.
The CAUSE.....Please !
"And no I wouldn't consider it anti-freedom at all because freedom is within the law not outside the law."
Uhh... Ya, there ya go. You said it yourself, freedom is what the government tells us it is. You and GW probably get along just fine.
--Aaron
The Militant Libertarian
http://www.MilitantLibertarian.org
you're a real coconut !
Result of chemical modification? LOL. Please, humor me and explain to us how that was done. Do you even know how a plant works??
As I imagined, you want alcohol illegal... so, hmm... you realize that you're contributing to a freedom-based website, right? Can you explain how your theory of "I make the rules and people can only eat/drink/smoke what I want them to"? Where's the freedom in that?
Prohibition has never worked, and it never will.
-Miss Green
"Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it."
Cannabis which is grown today differs because of the technological advances of controlling their temp , humidity and carbondioxide levels along with chemical fertilizers and micronutrients. Hydroponic grow methods and adding acids and blooming chemicals to enhance the flowering capability of the plants. THC levels have at a minimum doubled in the last 20 years.
I also understand how the plant "works" as you put it. The female plants are seperated from the male plants to keep them from fertilization so their flowering buds are seedless, hence Sinsemilia.
I could go on but what's the use ??? Oh and it's far beyond a theory , which I didn't make up , it's actually the Law. No, Prohibition has never worked and you are right it never will , that's the smartest thing you've said all day. But I'll tell you this much, alcohol has killed and hurt more people in this country than all the gun accidents and murders combined so yes I do hate alcohol. And making drugs legal will promote more of it's use which will just add to the problem.
Hey look here Miss Green an article from you favorite magazine :
http://hightimes.com/news/ht_admin/2152
Oh and the comment about contributing to a freedom based website....That Freedom is within the laws of the country , not your freedom to make your own.
Now I've wasted enough time responding to you so go ahead and post again so you can have the last word.
Hey-- thanks for letting me have the last word. :)
You said.. "Cannabis which is grown today differs because of the technological advances of controlling their temp , humidity and carbondioxide levels along with chemical fertilizers and micronutrients. Hydroponic grow methods and adding acids and blooming chemicals to enhance the flowering capability of the plants."
You do realize that this whole paragraph is just describing how a farmer would provide an ideal growing environment- therefore producing the best yeilds? How in the world is that chemically changing the plant? And hydroponic is nothing radical- you're just using a different medium... so why do you keep pointing it out like it means something?
And no, I wasn't asking about the reproduction of the plant. I was asking if you knew how plants work? If you did, then you could possibly understand the way heirlooms work along with selective breeding. It doesn't even matter anyway, like I said, because it still doesn't kill anyone.
And please, don't try to represent me. High Times is not my favorite magazine- I don't even read it. And who said anything about making my own laws? LOL... I guess I just don't understand your way of thinking. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
-Miss Green
"Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it."
> Cannabis which is grown today [...] THC levels have at a minimum doubled in the last 20 years.
< so what? how does that change anything? if somebody came out with 500% more potent weed, then what? what does this have to do with anything?
> I also understand how the plant "works" as you put it. The female plants are seperated from the male plants to keep them from fertilization so their flowering buds are seedless, hence Sinsemilia.
< who cares?
> I could go on but what's the use ???
< exactly. why did you even start?
> Oh and the comment about contributing to a freedom based website....That Freedom is within the laws of the country , not your freedom to make your own.
< freedom to make your own what?
> Now I've wasted enough time responding to you so go ahead and post again so you can have the last word.
< you've said nothing of value. you made not one point. you're just angry that some people are enjoying life and you wish they'd rot in prison.
bleach isn't very healthy neither but you don't go to jail for selling and buying it. what the end user does with the product he buys is up to him.
> those who love their beloved cannabis as a means of recreational "loss of reality" are those (like yourself) who are lobbying the hardest for it, to which I find distasteful.
< feeling good is distasteful to you? you see someone smoke up and enjoy themselves and you're repulsed? exactly how does that affect any part of your life?
> No matter the number of articles you post [...] will not convince me to ever give a yea in it's legalization.
< can you give me but one example of how your life is affected by jimmy getting high over the weekend?
Thank you, awesomo, for the great points you have made.
-Miss Green
"Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it."
TEMPLAR I'm not sure if you watched it but all your points are dealt with in the video.
But I'm OK if you don't agree. Maybe next time on other issues.
I Promise to PROMOTE, Preserve, Protect and Defend The Constitution!
http://www.firecongress.org/
http://firecongress.meetup.com/?gj=ej9